So I really like the LO Absalom book. Like, a lot. Enough to want to set an entire campaign there and with a little bit of the Isle of Kortos. But of course, one book can't contain everything I might want to know about this "setting", and it leaves a few things to mystery that I imagine aren't actually unknown outside of this book. I want to do something with the missing Primarch Lord Gyr for example, but the book doesn't reveal hit fate, other that he disappeared during Tar-Baphon's siege (probably in Tyrant's Grasp then).
Can you recommend me some books that have some more stuff about Absalom and/or the Isle of Kortos that wouldn't be in the Lost Omens book? Mostly looking for 1e sources, despite them being more likely to be outdated. I'm aware of Agents of Edgewatch, but I'm hoping to avoid that as I'm not interested in the story and would likely overwrite it with my own in my Golarion's "canon".
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The only other primary source is going to be the Absalom book from 1E, but it's a thinner 100 page campaign setting book. Other than that you might look at Pathfinder Wiki for the topics you want more on and see if any other sources are cited there.
For example, the following are cited for Lord Gyr:
Owen K.C. Stephens. “History” in Guide to Absalom, 57. Paizo Inc., 2008
Erik Mona, et al. “Absalom” in Pathfinder Society Field Guide, 5. Paizo Inc., 2011
Dennis Baker, et al. “Combat of the Inner Sea” in Inner Sea Combat, 6. Paizo Inc., 2014
Erik Mona, et al. “Absalom and Starstone Isle” in World Guide, 18. Paizo Inc., 2019
Lyz Liddell. The Absalom Initiation, 3. Paizo Inc., 2019
Judy Bauer, et al. “Diobel” in Towns of the Inner Sea, 5. Paizo Inc., 2013
Owen K.C. Stephens. “Places” in Guide to Absalom, 11. Paizo Inc., 2008
Erik Mona, et al. “Absalom” in Absalom, City of Lost Omens, 11. Paizo Inc., 2021
Erik Mona, et al. “NPC Glossary” in Absalom, City of Lost Omens, 316. Paizo Inc., 2021
Owen K.C. Stephens. “Places” in Guide to Absalom, 9. Paizo Inc., 2008
Owen K.C. Stephens. “Places” in Guide to Absalom, 20. Paizo Inc., 2008
Owen K.C. Stephens. “Places” in Guide to Absalom, 10. Paizo Inc., 2008
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Ever since Games Workshop put out their "Power Behind the Throne" installment of their 6-part The Enemy Within campaign in 1988, I've been an enthusiastic supporter of city-based campaigns. The city in Power Behind the Throne was called Middenheim. It was a wonderful place to play Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.
I've always wondered why TSR/WotC never put out a supplement that was all about Waterdeep (not just Undermountain)? It would have been such an awesome place to run an entire campaign. TSR/WotC's Sigil would also be a great place to run an entire campaign.
Likewise, Paizo could also scratch that itch with a city-based campaign/adventure path set in Absalom.
Sure, it would take a LOT of detailing of the city (much more than their most recent Absalom release), but if it were sufficiently detailed, the possibilities of all sorts of long-term campaigns are just endless.
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Likewise, Paizo could also scratch that itch with a city-based campaign/adventure path set in Absalom.
You mean another adventure path set in Absalom I assume, since Agents of Edgewatch IS an AP meant to showcase Absalom in conjunction with the Lost Omens: Absalom book.
To be fair, I think most people would want that anyway, since Agents of Edgewatch is now kind of regarded as a misstep on Paizo's part, or at least in need of significant retooling by GMs who want to try and run it in a tasteful way. So there'd definitely be interest in an Absalom-set AP where you're not cops.
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Likewise, Paizo could also scratch that itch with a city-based campaign/adventure path set in Absalom.You mean another adventure path set in Absalom I assume, since Agents of Edgewatch IS an AP meant to showcase Absalom in conjunction with the Lost Omens: Absalom book.
To be fair, I think most people would want that anyway, since Agents of Edgewatch is now kind of regarded as a misstep on Paizo's part, or at least in need of significant retooling by GMs who want to try and run it in a tasteful way. So there'd definitely be interest in an Absalom-set AP where you're not cops.
Sorry. I haven't played any PF2 APs at all. Haven't even played any PF2, for that matter.
Didn't know they did an AP based in Absalom.
I'm guessing, by your comment, it wasn't very good or popular.
Was it one of those shortened 3 book APs?
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Likewise, Paizo could also scratch that itch with a city-based campaign/adventure path set in Absalom.You mean another adventure path set in Absalom I assume, since Agents of Edgewatch IS an AP meant to showcase Absalom in conjunction with the Lost Omens: Absalom book.
To be fair, I think most people would want that anyway, since Agents of Edgewatch is now kind of regarded as a misstep on Paizo's part, or at least in need of significant retooling by GMs who want to try and run it in a tasteful way. So there'd definitely be interest in an Absalom-set AP where you're not cops.
Sorry. I haven't played any PF2 APs at all. Haven't even played any PF2, for that matter.
Didn't know they did an AP based in Absalom.
I'm guessing, by your comment, it wasn't very good or popular.
Was it one of those shortened 3 book APs?
A full six books, but inexplicably full of framing corrupt policing (getting paid under the table for strike-breaking, delivering striking workers to execution, stealing from those you arrest) as Good-aligned... and came out just as massive anti-police protests rocked the nation.
The only good thing I'll say for it is that one volume has a lovely overview of Vudra in the back. One volume's author donated all their profits from it after a public apology, and Paizo claimed it was reworking internal policies after it released despite internal pushback.
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A full six books, but inexplicably full of framing corrupt policing (getting paid under the table for strike-breaking, delivering striking workers to execution, stealing from those you arrest) as Good-aligned... and came out just as massive anti-police protests rocked the nation.
The only good thing I'll say for it is that one volume has a lovely overview of Vudra in the back. One volume's author donated all their profits from it after a public apology, and Paizo claimed it was reworking internal policies after it released despite internal pushback.
Thanks.
Sounds like an AP I definitely don't want to play.
I hate it when game companies feel like they have to go on a crusade by making changing current products to somehow reflect on current real world events.
If they want to come up with a new game to reflect their personal political views, fine. People who buy such things would know what they're getting into.
I play Pathfinder to get AWAY from real-world bulls**t.
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A full six books, but inexplicably full of framing corrupt policing (getting paid under the table for strike-breaking, delivering striking workers to execution, stealing from those you arrest) as Good-aligned... and came out just as massive anti-police protests rocked the nation.
The only good thing I'll say for it is that one volume has a lovely overview of Vudra in the back. One volume's author donated all their profits from it after a public apology, and Paizo claimed it was reworking internal policies after it released despite internal pushback.
Thanks.
Sounds like an AP I definitely don't want to play.
I hate it when game companies feel like they have to go on a crusade by making changing current products to somehow reflect on current real world events.
If they want to come up with a new game to reflect their personal political views, fine. People who buy such things would know what they're getting into.
I play Pathfinder to get AWAY from real-world bulls**t.
The thing is, that seemed to be exactly what Paizo thought they were doing - being as apolitical as possible. They just wanted a turn-of-the-century seedy urban crime story, structured it a certain way, and decided that because it was fiction they wouldn't be tarred by the real-world context that would be read into it. And it blew up in their faces, because leadership ignored the voices warning about how it would be received, looking catastrophically insensitive on two levels.
Personally, I never understood the decision to make them cops in the first place. If you're going to lean into Sherlock Holmes tropes, the whole point of Holmes is that he isn't a cop, he doesn't have a boss, he doesn't have bureaucracy, he takes his own jobs, he plays by his own rules. You'd think a small company of private detectives would be perfect for Pathfinder adventurers.
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An additional important point: The AP would have been more or less finished and sent to the printers several months before things blew up to half the proportion they would become. Sure, there were warning signs, but by the time it became a topical news story and not just another Tuesday brutality, the question wasn't, "Should we maybe do a different kind of adventure at this time?" it was "Should we recall an adventure that's already drafted, mostly written, and being printed, risking as much as half a year's revenue?"
I don't want to downplay how much warning voices may have been ignored--there's a reason for the new policy--but it's not like Paizo was making the decision to produce Edgewatch while the protests were underway. As much as the premise of PCs being heroically corrupt cops was always going to be flawed, the length of the publication cycle means that the chance to alter course without pain was long gone before the murder of George Floyd.
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Ever since Games Workshop put out their "Power Behind the Throne" installment of their 6-part The Enemy Within campaign in 1988, I've been an enthusiastic supporter of city-based campaigns. The city in Power Behind the Throne was called Middenheim. It was a wonderful place to play Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.
I've always wondered why TSR/WotC never put out a supplement that was all about Waterdeep (not just Undermountain)? It would have been such an awesome place to run an entire campaign. TSR/WotC's Sigil would also be a great place to run an entire campaign.
Likewise, Paizo could also scratch that itch with a city-based campaign/adventure path set in Absalom.
Sure, it would take a LOT of detailing of the city (much more than their most recent Absalom release), but if it were sufficiently detailed, the possibilities of all sorts of long-term campaigns are just endless.
There was a supplement for Waterdeep. FR1 Waterdeep.
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I'd love a wizard (and adjacent) themed adventure set around the Arcanamirium and involving at least tangentially the gillmen. It's not really a 'wizard school' like Hogwarts or Magaambya, so could scratch different sorts of itches, with more of a magical guild that's also a school, and politically tied to Nex and it's Arclords, sort of thing that makes it quite unique in it's own sense.
More information about what sort of magical civic improvements the Arcanamirium is working on, and how some may have blown up in their faces (best intentions from the spellcaster, maybe not the best understanding of the socioeconomic or ecological impact of some of their big ideas...). More on the 'low Azlanti' seeking to become more relevant / more trusted / more politically powerful in the closest place they have to a 'home city.'
Maybe some work from the PCs to try and reclaim some section of the Puddles? That could be a suitable project for low-level Arcanamirium journeymen and their allies, fitting both the goals of the Arcanamirium, while putting them into contact with the people already eking out a living there.
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A full six books, but inexplicably full of framing corrupt policing (getting paid under the table for strike-breaking, delivering striking workers to execution, stealing from those you arrest) as Good-aligned... and came out just as massive anti-police protests rocked the nation.
The only good thing I'll say for it is that one volume has a lovely overview of Vudra in the back. One volume's author donated all their profits from it after a public apology, and Paizo claimed it was reworking internal policies after it released despite internal pushback.
Thanks.
Sounds like an AP I definitely don't want to play.
I hate it when game companies feel like they have to go on a crusade by making changing current products to somehow reflect on current real world events.
If they want to come up with a new game to reflect their personal political views, fine. People who buy such things would know what they're getting into.
I play Pathfinder to get AWAY from real-world bulls**t.
The thing is, that seemed to be exactly what Paizo thought they were doing - being as apolitical as possible. They just wanted a turn-of-the-century seedy urban crime story, structured it a certain way, and decided that because it was fiction they wouldn't be tarred by the real-world context that would be read into it. And it blew up in their faces, because leadership ignored the voices warning about how it would be received, looking catastrophically insensitive on two levels.
Personally, I never understood the decision to make them cops in the first place. If you're going to lean into Sherlock Holmes tropes, the whole point of Holmes is that he isn't a cop, he doesn't have a boss, he doesn't have bureaucracy, he takes his own jobs, he plays by his own rules. You'd think a small company of private detectives would be perfect for Pathfinder adventurers.
Pinkertons are better?
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I'd love a wizard (and adjacent) themed adventure set around the Arcanamirium and involving at least tangentially the gillmen. It's not really a 'wizard school' like Hogwarts or Magaambya, so could scratch different sorts of itches, with more of a magical guild that's also a school, and politically tied to Nex and it's Arclords, sort of thing that makes it quite unique in it's own sense.
More information about what sort of magical civic improvements the Arcanamirium is working on, and how some may have blown up in their faces (best intentions from the spellcaster, maybe not the best understanding of the socioeconomic or ecological impact of some of their big ideas...). More on the 'low Azlanti' seeking to become more relevant / more trusted / more politically powerful in the closest place they have to a 'home city.'
Maybe some work from the PCs to try and reclaim some section of the Puddles? That could be a suitable project for low-level Arcanamirium journeymen and their allies, fitting both the goals of the Arcanamirium, while putting them into contact with the people already eking out a living there.
that would be a really enjoyable 3 book adventure.
some underwater / darklands stuff at the end, some crime fighting, some magic school stuff? It would be a lot of fun.
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Agents of Edgewatch had a lot of cool villains, maps, and concepts. There's a ton to draw inspiration from if you are making an Absalom adventure.
Another one coming soon (2025) in Absalom is Dead God's Hand.
I'd love an adventure path exploring Gyr's choice to retire in Andoran, Horner Shan and his Smoke Knights getting away with the treasure in the Vault of Abadar, and Samel Malegant's Black Paper Court lawyers working for the most powerful Houses.
The Guild of Wonders is another avenue to explore as well. Rather than street level crime, we could explore political intrigue and spycraft in an urban setting.
There was a supplement for Waterdeep. FR1 Waterdeep.
There was also the City System box set for 1E, the Waterdeep: City of Splendors boxed set for 2E, and the City of Splendors: Waterdeep hardcover book for 3E, plus the adventure Waterdeep (part of the Avatar Trilogy), and Volo's Guide to Waterdeep. Waterdeep is probably the most heavily-covered city in the Forgotten Realms if not the most heavily-covered fantasy city in TTRPGs full stop.
However, I think they're not quite what was being looked for, which was a full-on adventure/campaign using the city. All of those resources had small-scale sample adventures with them, but not some kind of big uber-campaign like Enemy Within, which was really something else in its day.
From the office of expectation management, while Dead God's Hand does have some fun Absalom lore...
** spoiler omitted **
So deep that the Lost Omens: Absalom book will not support it?
I'm curious if Fall's End or some of the Darklands content in that book will show up, or more stuff around the ascended.
Creative Director
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From the office of expectation management, while Dead God's Hand does have some fun Absalom lore...
** spoiler omitted **
So deep that the Lost Omens: Absalom book will not support it?
I'm curious if Fall's End or some of the Darklands content in that book will show up, or more stuff around the ascended.
The adventure won't require the Absalom book, but it will expand upon the lore in there.
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Agents of Edgewatch had a lot of cool villains, maps, and concepts. There's a ton to draw inspiration from if you are making an Absalom adventure.
Another one coming soon (2025) in Absalom is Dead God's Hand.
I'd love an adventure path exploring Gyr's choice to retire in Andoran, Horner Shan and his Smoke Knights getting away with the treasure in the Vault of Abadar, and Samel Malegant's Black Paper Court lawyers working for the most powerful Houses.
The Guild of Wonders is another avenue to explore as well. Rather than street level crime, we could explore political intrigue and spycraft in an urban setting.
Where was the Andoran thing revealed?