Stunned: if "can't act" is a mistake, then what?


Rules Discussion

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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Deriven Firelion wrote:
Bluemagetim wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
Bluemagetim wrote:

Another benefit of stunned is that creature cannot be part of a flank till it wears off.

So stunned 1 means no reactions, doesnt count towards flanking and loses an action on their next turn.

Slowed 1 for 1 round only means loses 1 action on their next turn.

Do you have to act to flank? What are the rules for flanking?

To flank a foe, you and your ally must be on opposite

sides of the creature. A line drawn between the center of
your space and the center of your ally’s space must pass
through opposite sides or opposite corners of the foe’s
space. Additionally, both you and the ally have to be
able to act
, you must be wielding melee weapons or be
able to make an unarmed attack, you can’t be under any
effects that prevent you from attacking, and you must
both have the enemy within reach. If you are wielding a
reach weapon, you use your reach with that weapon for
this purpose.

Cool. Good to know.

As far as your slow versus stun comparison, slow lasts for a minute or more, stun 1 is done the next turn and can't to my knowledge be a continuous long duration effect.

When I hit an enemy with Stunning fist and they're stunned 1, they lose their reactions, can't flank, and lose 1 action the next turn if they miss their save with the incap trait.

If I hit a target of any level with slow and they fail their save, they are slowed 1 for one minute. Meaning for one minute they lose access to all three action activities unless they have some way to counter it. If I trip them and they want to stand up, they are down to 1 action activities for 1 minute. If they critically fail the slow against the slow spell, they are slow 2 for one minute which is a death sentence to almost anything in the game. Slow 1 is usually an easy defeat, but Slow 2 is a joke defeat. I've landed a critical fail slow against a boss and the fight was over even thought the target wasn't dead.

So what seems more...

Only reason I put slow 1 round and stun 1 is that those are comparable effects at same level. It might be appropriate to compare stunning fists with the crit spec of the brawling group because they compete for the same feat at level 2 monk.

Comparing the spell slow would be better if put up against something else at the same spell rank. That actually means looking at paralyze and doing so means only comparing paralyze on success and slow on success where the comparison goes back to stun 1 and slow 1 round. is there a better spell or ability available at level 5 to compare to the slow spell?


Ok, enough arguing about arguing.

So stunned being able to stop reactions and flanking is good. That's the gist I'm getting here. One issue seems to be the confusing guidance provided for on-turn stun.

Stunned being "unlike" a condition that simply says you can't act while literally being a condition that says you can't act makes for a peculiar explanation. But perhaps the conditions being referred to are merely the ones that, as the rule puts it, simply say you can't act. That is to say, the ones that don't increase or decrease your actions to spend but still say you can't act.


SuperParkourio wrote:

Ok, enough arguing about arguing.

So stunned being able to stop reactions and flanking is good. That's the gist I'm getting here. One issue seems to be the confusing guidance provided for on-turn stun.

Stunned being "unlike" a condition that simply says you can't act while literally being a condition that says you can't act makes for a peculiar explanation. But perhaps the conditions being referred to are merely the ones that, as the rule puts it, simply say you can't act. That is to say, the ones that don't increase or decrease your actions to spend but still say you can't act.

I mean... That's what this passage says if you dont start chopping it to pieces.

"Conditions X, Y, Z alter number of actions.
Other conditions simply say you can't act.
If you cure these conditions, that simply say you can't act, your actions are still there "

Nothing is contradictory.

Even with"Stun on your turn", if it gets removed somehow, your actions are still there.


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SuperParkourio wrote:
Stunned being "unlike" a condition that simply says you can't act while literally being a condition that says you can't act makes for a peculiar explanation. But perhaps the conditions being referred to are merely the ones that, as the rule puts it, simply say you can't act. That is to say, the ones that don't increase or decrease your actions to spend but still say you can't act.

Yes. And this was analyzed in this topic before. And also not for the first time on this forum either. Maybe even several times before the remaster...

Grand Archive

The responses from DV and shroud had adequately addressed my comments from earlier and we have come to an agreement. The only thing we disagree on now is just how cut and clear the rules actually are which is something shared by DV in part. That's all I'll say now.

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