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Hello all,
I'm hoping you can help me out. I have a player who would like to play a Kensei. I believe it is from Complete Warrior, but I don't have that book. My google-fu is not quite strong enough to find it in the web either.
Does anyone have a link to this class? I'd like to convert it to PF for my player.
Thanks.
You need to have the Complete Warrior or a copy of it. It's closed content so no web links to it. There are all kinds of ways to download it, , , illegally. I suggest not doing that. Just try to get a copy from a friend if you can.
Just a heads up though, it's not that great of a prestige class. At least, it isn't broken or anything. The class has a couple of abilities that require concentration checks. I houseruled that Perception is the default replacement for concentration outside of spellcasting. It's the only skill that even remotely makes sense for this.
At least he's not playing a Mastet Thrower from the same book. What a mistake allowing that was.
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You need to have the Complete Warrior or a copy of it. It's closed content so no web links to it. There are all kinds of ways to download it, , , illegally. I suggest not doing that. Just try to get a copy from a friend if you can.
Just a heads up though, it's not that great of a prestige class. At least, it isn't broken or anything. The class has a couple of abilities that require concentration checks. I houseruled that Perception is the default replacement for concentration outside of spellcasting. It's the only skill that even remotely makes sense for this.
At least he's not playing a Mastet Thrower from the same book. What a mistake allowing that was.
Thanks. He kind of has his heart set on it :) I might check if my library or Half Price books has it.
You need to have the Complete Warrior or a copy of it. It's closed content so no web links to it. There are all kinds of ways to download it, , , illegally. I suggest not doing that. Just try to get a copy from a friend if you can.
Just a heads up though, it's not that great of a prestige class. At least, it isn't broken or anything. The class has a couple of abilities that require concentration checks. I houseruled that Perception is the default replacement for concentration outside of spellcasting. It's the only skill that even remotely makes sense for this.
At least he's not playing a Mastet Thrower from the same book. What a mistake allowing that was.
apoligies for derailing lol. but i have to ask?
what happened with the master thrower? that class always kinda intrigued me but never had a chance to try it.
on a more relative note, i did play a kensai once and even though i wasnt the most optimized in the group i did have a ton of fun with the character.
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You need to have the Complete Warrior or a copy of it. It's closed content so no web links to it. There are all kinds of ways to download it, , , illegally. I suggest not doing that. Just try to get a copy from a friend if you can.
Just a heads up though, it's not that great of a prestige class. At least, it isn't broken or anything. The class has a couple of abilities that require concentration checks. I houseruled that Perception is the default replacement for concentration outside of spellcasting. It's the only skill that even remotely makes sense for this.
At least he's not playing a Mastet Thrower from the same book. What a mistake allowing that was.
apoligies for derailing lol. but i have to ask?
what happened with the master thrower? that class always kinda intrigued me but never had a chance to try it.
on a more relative note, i did play a kensai once and even though i wasnt the most optimized in the group i did have a ton of fun with the character.
I'm glad to hear that you had fun with the character. My player is playing a cavalier right now and we are playing through the Rise of the Runelords AP. We are almost done with Burnt Offerings. He's not having a ton of fun playing the character, since a lot of the abilities are based around mounted combat. He played a kensei many years ago and he had a lot of fun with it too.
One minor issue with the Kensai class is that it's abilities are focused around Concentration skill checks. Additionally, the class requires sacrification of your precious shiny XP. Which, while it was a balanced sacrifice in 3.x it is not so much anymore as magic item creation no longer requires delicious maple flavored XP.
I'm intrigued, and would like to see this write-up.
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Only moderately off topic but I REALLY miss the feel of the 2nd edition kit kensai. I've found every kensai since subpar. Guess I'm living in the past though. In 3rd I just mixed some fighter and monk with the kensai class from oriental adventures but the new one is super meh to me. My biggest problem is probably them being the sword SAINT ... and not getting full bab?
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Warning: This is NOT a proper conversion, but rather a reimagining of the class. It IS more powerful, by intention, borrowing aspects from it's predecessor (the Weapon Master class from Sword and Fist) and the PF Paladin.Kensei (2+int skill points per level)
Requirements: BAB +6, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack
Multi-classing notes:
Levels Stack with fighter levels (up to a max of double fighter levels) for purpose of qualifying for fighter only feats.
Levels also Stack with Divine Bond Paladins for purposes of determining the number of times he may call his divine bond, and the duration of that call.
Lvl / BAB /Fort/ Ref/Will/ Special
1st / +1 / +1 / +0 / +1 / Sword Saint (Keen)
2nd / +2 / +1 / +1 / +1 / Soul of the Master +2
3rd / +3 / +2 / +1 / +2 / Sword Saint (+2, +1/+1)
4th / +4 / +2 / +1 / +2 / Soul of the Master +4, Lunge
5th / +5 / +3 / +2 / +3 / Withstand, Sword Saint (+3, +2/+2)
6th / +6 / +3 / +2 / +3 / Cleaving Strike, Soul of the Master +6
7th / +7 / +4 / +2 / +4 / Sword Saint (+4, +3 / +3)
8th / +8 / +4 / +3 / +4 / Bad Odds for you, Soul of the Master +8
9th / +9 / +5 / +3 / +5 / Sword Saint (+6, +4 / +4)
10th/+10 / +5 / +3 / +5 / Kensei Aima, Soul of the Master +10
Special Abilities:
Sword Saint: A Kensei is a master of weaponry, to the point he gains the ability to imbue weapons he wields with magical properties similar to the way a Paladin's Bond works. Add special abilities with properties equal to those listed in the chart, the single value is for a single weapon, the split values are for those wielding a pair of weapons. These abilities can not raise a weapon's total value over +10, nor can it raise a weapon's enhancement bonus over +5. Once a Kensei activates his Sword Saint ability he can not change the abilities without stowing his weapon as a move action first, and can then readjust the qualities as he re-draws the weapon.
Note: The Keen ability of this class feature ignores the damage type...
Hi Kryt,
First, thank you for taking the time to do this conversion.
A couple of questions...
How many times per day would he be able to activate the Sword Saint ability? Perhaps 1/day as a 1st level Kensei and then and additional time per day every 4 levels?
Does the Kensai Aima only apply to attacks of opportunity?
Only moderately off topic but I REALLY miss the feel of the 2nd edition kit kensai. I've found every kensai since subpar. Guess I'm living in the past though. In 3rd I just mixed some fighter and monk with the kensai class from oriental adventures but the new one is super meh to me. My biggest problem is probably them being the sword SAINT ... and not getting full bab?
I've always felt the Kensei from Oriental Adventures was about as close as you were going to get from the 2e version. The only major thing missing was the unarmored bonus which could easily be solved by letting them add Wis to AC when unarmored. I don't have my book on hand but did the complete warrior Kensei not have full BAB?
I'm open to thoughts and critique guys, I'm aware the capstone might be a bit much, I tried to make it flavorful and match the concept. (And yes, the class is intended to be make the choice between 9 and 10 levels difficult for the Paladin who decides to take it, they give up a lot, but the PrC gives quite a bit, so for some concepts I think it's tempting)
One of the highlights of the old Kensei kit was the ability to do Max damage on all attacks for a set period of time. I would suggest adding a mid-level ability that is either once a day for a limited number of rounds (perhaps limited to their Charisma modifier) or an ability that activates on a critical that causes the Kensei to deal maximum base weapon damage (doesn't maximize extra damage from sneak attack, flaming sword, etc.)
I actually like the kensai for the most point, the key is the fact that the samurai in complete warrior kind of sucks. I played ina heavily homebrewed setting a friend ran and played his improved samurai and taking kensai was well worth it. The only ability I really just dislike the the Ki warlord ability as it just seems sub-par for a prestige class capstone...
*now wants to play one*
It's a cool ability, but not really all that significant in the long run. (It would mean a lot more to a kit at low levels)It's such a minor effect in the long haul though, I see no real reason you couldn't do that.
Peftect Cut: At 7th level a Kensei's attacks of opportunity strike the wide-open target with such perfection that there is no longer any question how much damage the weapon will do out of it's potential. All attacks of opportunity deal maximum weapon damage.
Note: this maximum damage IS multiplied on a critical.
At 10th level this ability applies to all attacks.
Ah good call. Having it activate on an attack of opportunity fits the class much better thematically. I use a simplified AoO system so the thought hadn't really crossed my mind. Would you have any objections to putting it at third level?
Speaking of which, Kensei Aima is usable on any attack the character has available to him. Could be an AoO, a standard attack, etc etc.(Infact, one cool option you might edit in, would be the ability to spend two daily uses of Kensei Aima to do it to every target in a whirlwind attack)
Any ability that augments Whirlwind attack sounds great to me!
Shifting it to 3 and 7 shouldn't be problematic.
Some people, depending on their personal balance sense, would have issues with the full ability at level 3 though, because it's a really sweet dip for a monk that costs them almost nothing. (Infact, I have a hard time picturing a monk that wouldn't dip 4 levels if the constant max damage aspect of Perfect Cut were granted at level 3)
The only problem with that being that it would cost the monk a feat somewhere before that, so that their unarmed attacks could count as slashing, since it is the "Perfect Cut", correct?
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The only problem with that being that it would cost the monk a feat somewhere before that, so that their unarmed attacks could count as slashing, since it is the "Perfect Cut", correct?Shifting it to 3 and 7 shouldn't be problematic.
Some people, depending on their personal balance sense, would have issues with the full ability at level 3 though, because it's a really sweet dip for a monk that costs them almost nothing. (Infact, I have a hard time picturing a monk that wouldn't dip 4 levels if the constant max damage aspect of Perfect Cut were granted at level 3)
Flavor text my friend. You find masterful warriors of many weapons, from the Katana, to the Rapier, to the Quarterstaff, to the Fist. You name it, it's done.
Like I said though, it's up to the given game's GM to make the choice. Monk's actually do need a boost, I personally prefer to give it through houserules to the base class than patch prestige classes and feats, but to each their own.
Were you thinking of monks when you created this class? Just curious. You've mentioned the monk class a few times in this thread. I really like how the weapon bond idea is similar to the Paladins.
My group is going to try to finish Burnt Offerings tonight (I'm GMing). I'd like to create a few builds using your class.
After Burnt Offerings we were going to do something a little different in our next couple of sessions. We were going to build 11th level PCs using the Cheese Grinder rules and have at it. Most of us are new players and this is their first campaign. I thought it would be a nice for them to try out other classes. I'll ask my player who mentioned the Kensei to create one, so we can playtest it. I know Cheese Grinder is...well, cheesy, but we'll give it a shot. :)
not sure if someone touched on this yet but it was always possible to make a 2 weapon kensai, just had to be a double weapon, and each end had to be endowed seperatly. So while you didnt have the whole versatility of whatever you wanted it was still possible. Course you couldve always worked with you GM to use the craft weapon skill to create a unique double weapon that way you could get exactly what you wanted for your double weapon kensai. then the exotic weapons master prc was always a decent choice after or immediatly before to complement the class and weapon choices well
I was thinking about this on the way to work yesterday, but what about a 20 level kensei class that had some base abilities, things that all weapon masters/kensei would want, and then a bunch of kensei talents along the lines of rage powers/rogue talents. That way you could create "special moves" specific to certain weapon types, such as blades, clubs, etc. Probably it could be patterned on the fighter's weapon groups.
Edit-
Common kensei powers would be a Wisdom AC bonus (so that you are unrestricted in your movement), the ability to personally enchant your weapons seeing as you don't want to have to trade up later. Perhaps they would get something to do with vital strike, so they can make "perfect strokes" that equate to full attack damage.
i took the above conversion and formated it appropriately. here ya go
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0BwBvyKfvtG1ZYWJmZTVmYWEtNTk1Yy00OWIyLWE xZDctODQ2ZDYyNDRhYjg3&hl=en
I was actually thinking of writing a 20 level base class using the fighter and monk as inspiration, but I am coming to a problem. Does the kensei posess the capacity to flurry? I want to write the class to replace monk because it fits better thematically into my world. Do the kensai get those extra attacks? I think of it this way, kensai, like monks, don't have an off hand, so two weapon fighting would be an option. Same progression as flurry, but you can twohand something like a bastard sword so the katana fanatics keep their babies (not a greatsword, though, that seems crazy to me and sort of encroaches on fighter territory). What's the concensus?
if you are doing the classic kensei of japan, no flurry. TWF is always a cool option ( Musashi thought so) but the esthetic to aim for is single powerful attacks. The one-hit, one-kill mantra.
a quick look at Tv-tropes yeilds this link for other possibilities for a kensei class.
i took the above conversion and formated it appropriately. here ya go
*updated
Hi Kryt,
First, thank you for taking the time to do this conversion.A couple of questions...
How many times per day would he be able to activate the Sword Saint ability? Perhaps 1/day as a 1st level Kensei and then and additional time per day every 4 levels?
Does the Kensai Aima only apply to attacks of opportunity?
I had actually intended for it to be an automatic effect to occur upon drawing the weapon (which, unless you led in with Fighter and picked up quickdraw, means you definitely are not full attacking or charging that round. A Paladin lead-in simply would not have the needed feats for that.
If your concerned about the power of it without a big enough in-combat cost, however, then I would recommend this tweak...
Sword Saint: A Kensei is a master of weaponry, to the point he gains the ability to imbue weapons he wields with magical properties similar to the way a Paladin's Bond works Drawing his weapon(s) slowly, the Kensei is able to channel his focus into it, granting it magical abilities as a standard-action draw.
I didn't worry about it, because it's not that big of an issue, and it totally destroys the concept of an Iaijutsu strike (It would be totally epic to see a Kensei Aima use the ability on a Spring Attack coupled with quickdraw, sheathing the weapon as part of the second movement as the enemy's corpse falls in two halves.)
Speaking of which, Kensei Aima is usable on any attack the character has available to him. Could be an AoO, a standard attack, etc etc.
(Infact, one cool option you might edit in, would be the ability to spend two daily uses of Kensei Aima to do it to every target in a whirlwind attack)
No, no, no, no, no, no. Any ability which lets a character change what magical bonuses are on their weapon at will (in combat) is flat out broken, no matter what kind of action it takes. "Oh, we're being attacked by lizardmen. My pair of +4 swords are now +3 humanoidbane, which makes them effectively +5 and adds +2d6 on top of that. Oops, they summoned their demon-god. They're now +1 holy demonbane. Eat +3/+4d6, you fiend!"
Out of combat, such as "meditate 10 minutes to change it" is better - it still can be abused if they know what to prepare for, but so can what spells and potions are prepared.
Alternatively, if you limit changing it to X times per day (maybe once every three class levels), then it becomes a question of expending daily resources to change it, which makes it manageable.
Heroes of the Jade Oath has a Kensai base class.
The class is solely devoted to the mastery of a single weapon style and has such features as: d10 Hit Die, AC Bonus progression, Favored Attack Bonus progression, Minimum Weapon Damage, Combat Rites, Named Weapon, Martial Styles, Living Ch'i Weapon, Dragon Spirit abilities, and others.
Granted, it was developed for Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved (AE), but can be converted to Pathfinder as AE is a d20 OGL based system.