So I'm looking at playing a stealthy master of disguise Arcane Trickster character in an upcoming Pathfinder 1e game and with the Rich Parents trait I'm getting Sleeves of Many Garments to augment my disguises. Now I know they are illusion and can't mimic tactile benefits like pretending to be a Swarmsuit and actually conferring the benefits of that is right out, but as the +2 stealth of a Shinobi Shozoku is largely visual, does anyone think that's reasonable?
My GM is on the fence about it. I mentioned I could even augment the illusory Shozoku color and pattern to match the terrain and be extra camouflaged, better than the original. So it seems entirely plausible it could confer a +2 circumstance bonus to stealth, right? My actual clothes underneath is a Monk's Outfit, which I'm just saying are comfy silken pajamas, but they should be just as quiet, and my armor is a Haramaki, which meets the Shozoku's no base AC higher than +1 to function as well.
I just need to know, if you were GM and a player asked you thus, how would you rule it and why?
If I were your GM, I would first just ask why you don't buy and wear a Shinobi Shozoku, whether you have sleeves of many garments or not.
Otherwise, I would say that, No, the sleeves will not give you the shozoku's Stealth bonus. While it only mentions it being dark cloth, Stealth is both visual and audible (The combined Hide and Move Silently into one skill, just like they mashed Listen, Spot, and Search into Perception), but it's not hard to believe that it's a well-made fabric that doesn't rustle so much or even muffles natural bodily sounds some (since being naked doesn't grant a bonus).
All in all, it's hard to say what aspect exactly gives the bonus, but for mechanic's purposes, the suit isn't just one factor, visual, but likely audible or even a bit heat-dispersing as well in some cases. Wearing the shozoku and having the sleeves alter its appearance would seem to mean it still gave the bonus, but changing something's pattern or color should affect it. You might be wearing camouflage, but if you make it look bright orange, even if it's only an illusion, realistically (and logically) it's going to be easier to see. Whether the GM rules that it just doesn't give its normal Stealth bonus or their giving a –2 (visual, because there still are visual or audible factors even if Perception has them rolled into one) to the character (or it's a +2 bonus to the detector) is just semantics.
Of course, if your background or environment is bright orange, a GM might not give a penalty, might even give a bonus, but that's GM's call for the specific situation.
I wouldn't allow it. Pathfinder is full of times when the mechanics need to be separated from the fluff of a game. Unless the Sleeves of Many Garments specifically say they can mimic more than just the appearance, a bonus to skill checks shouldn't be allowed, even if it makes "sense" that it would behave the same as a Shinobi Shozoku.
Game mechanics refers to RAW, 'mechanics' a rule impact in the game. Spells and magic items mechanically only do what they say.
Essentially you are trying to inflate descriptive colorful (aka 'fluff') text into a mechanical impact and that is a common mistake. The text is included for artistic writing and descriptive purposes along with increasing sales of the product.
There are 'expert/masterwork tools' which add +2 circumstance/competence bonus to one skill at 50-100gp (sometimes with 10 uses) and need to be used in conjunction with the skill over the time period the skill is active.whew So you have to pay cash for an effect and your Home GM needs to agree that it is fair/balanced. For clothing, any magical glamer over the clothing is going to cover or overlay and supress any visual mundane bonus.
An example of inflating color would be black ink for writing or tattoos, black paint on a wall, black animal fur, and black cloth for clothing all confer +2 circm Stealth.
I'd check out Boots and Cloak of Elvenkind. Blend spell is an elf only spell. Vanish spell is a short invisibility. Blur spell is helpful.
The bonus from a shonobi shozoku is more than just visual. Part of it comes from the fact it is close fitting garment that does not make noise. It can also act to muffle the sound of other clothes worn as long as they are not too bulky. This is why it does not work with most armor or when heavy clothes are worn. It can also prevent you from accidently brushing or snagging on items.
If its bonus was strictly visual than any dark clothes should give a similar bonus. Sorry, but this does not work the way you want it to.
personally your Home GM should use PFS as a baseline then expand from there. That gives you 20 pt ability buy (scores 7 to 18 before racial mods) and puts Rich Parents trait out of the Game. PFS decisions cover a lot of unbalanced rules and simplify the game, some like magic crafting you may want back in play.
A Hat of Disguise is better.
I'd go Diviner wizard BO:amulet dip keeping Transmutations for mage hand as acting in the surprise round is pretty good w Magical Knack & Resilient traits. Then unchRogue/Ninja to get your +2d6 SnkAtk to enter Arcn Trickster PC.
Okay so, I'll actually wear a Shinobi Shozoku under my disguised clothes, but I still think that using the Sleeves of Disguise to make an almost perfect camouflage could potentially be a different circumstance bonus. Granted, it'd be visual only, but there is a camouflage blanket that does a similiar effect. I just thought it'd be a cool role-play thing that might be a good enough idea people would surely agree that's an applicable circumstance bonus.
Also, I'm playing a Keen Kitsune with Realistic Likeness, so I basically have Disguise Self at will, sans clothes, so I figured the Sleeves or Many Garments were a must to complete disguises. I also plan to be an Unchained Rogue (Kitsune Trickster) and role-play that I'm a Sorcerer, hence I needed money to get a wand I could slight of hand out of my sleeve and keep the tip under my finger and pretend I was a beginning spellcaster until I could get a level in Wizard.
I don't think Rich Parents is too busted, it becomes practically worthless after level 3. It's only OP if a GM lets a layer retrain it away later, which I don't plan to do, I'll be stuck with a bum trait the rest of this character's adventuring career. But that's not what was here to be discussed. I've relayed the opinions expressed here to my GM and will be using an actual Shozoku as my base outfit underneath the illusions.
it's cool either way.
Kitsune, +10 racl Disguise to appear human.
then Realistic Likeness feat +10 crcm disguise to appear as specific individual.
>Clothing - Shinobi Shozoku {clothing} $50, if not in armor with AC +1 or better then +2 crcm stealth, at GM's discretion lots of gear underneath may also negate the bonus. IMO more than a light load.
>Chameleon Pill {consumable} $100, exposed skin grants +4 crcm Stealth 4hrs {another reason to go nekkid}.
>Sleeves of many Garments [wrist] $200, change appearance of mundane clothing {no bonuses}.
>Hat of Disguise [head] $1800, (as per disguise self:I1) +10 untyped disguise. so here with a specific human it's 10+10+10 to appear human and +20 for that individual
>Cat Burglar Boots [feet] $2000 +2 comp Acro, Clmb, Stlth and 1 failed reroll per day.
>Subtle Slippers [feet] $5500, +5 comp Stlth, grant bonus to 4 others within 30ft 1/d.
I listed the bonus type as identical types generally do not accumulate(stack). Crcm(circumstance) does but GMs can override that if it is too similar.
Polymorphs in PF1 you do not change creature type. This trips up a lot of players & GMs. You look human but a Knw(Locl) will uncover your actual kitsune race (and then the rest doesn't matter). The kitsune change shape is not as broad a change as you think.
BTW you cannot retrain traits. I know... The problem with Rich Parents is you trade a useful thing for cash at the start. I'd rather have Magical Knack or +1 Fort. You can get the cash later.
As a roleplay point - find a "priest" of razmir and imitate him... it'll be hilarious.
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