What is the Lingering Composition DC again?


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What is the Lingering Composition Performance DC when used by a 1st-level bard in a mixed level party of 1st-, 2nd-, and 3rd-level PCs to extend Courageous Anthem?

This came up in a PFS scenario today when the bard player brought up the fact that it's based on the composition's target's level, not his own as the GM previously believed. This is further complicated by the fact that the composition in question, Courageous Anthem, is an emanation area effect, and therefore has no targets.

Can you even use Lingering Composition with Courageous Anthem as written?

One of the players thought that the DC might be based on the target of Lingering Composition (the bard), but the bard player pointed out that--despite the name--Lingering Composition doesn’t have the Composition trait and is therefore not a Composition at all.

We're all thoroughly confused and we're hoping the Paizo hive mind might offer some insights.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

"The DC is usually a standard-difficulty DC of a level equal to the highest-level target of your composition"

They do sometimes use the word "target" when referring to those affected by area effects. Whoever has the highest level in the effect sets the DC

Yes, you can pull some minor shinanigans like cast it out of reach of the higher level PCs for a lower DC then move to get them too but who really cares

Grand Lodge

Okay, first of all "lingering composition" isn't called that because it's a composition that lingers, it's because it makes your composition linger. That's the effect.

The DC is set by the GM but has a suggestion for determining it. You could: use a standard DC of the highest level of the ally in the area, use a standard DC of the highest level of the ally likely to be affected even if they're not in the area, or use the standard DC of the bard's level since there aren't any targets. I'd say they're all reasonable choices based on the suggestion.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I agree that it would be the DC off the DC by level chart of the highest leveled character affected.

That said in a scenario like PFS where there can be 2 or more levels it may be fair to use the average party level rounded up.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Wouldn't it be more fair to set it at the basic DC of the bard's level? After all, in non-PFS games, the expectation is that the party will all be the same level as the bard.

PFS' level range setup totally skews that, changing the odds and making it inherently less fair than what is expected.

So to make it fair, you would use the bard's level (even though that is technically incorrect per the RAW). It's the only way to keep things fair and expected in relation to the bard's own abilities.

Liberty's Edge

Playing PFS, we always used the highest level of allies.

Now, I agree that, with all consequences falling squarely on the bard's shoulders, it would be more logical to have it based on the bard's own level. But that is not what the RAW says.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / What is the Lingering Composition DC again? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Discussion