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I'm a bit confused.
Throughout 1e and inside the Playtest, the Dominion of the Black was a malign organization of aliens that didn't really like the Lovecraftian cults (and that was mutual). They lived in the Dark Taperstry, were very advanced and spanned galaxy-sized plots.
Same canon seems to be in "Malevolence", which is 2e and was released 2021.
And then Gamemastery guide (released 2020) has this:
The Material Plane is the prosaic universe and the home
of mortal life. Innumerable galaxies play host to countless
stars and their planets, each housing unique settings for any
campaign, with Golarion as the classic example. Other worlds of
note like Castrovel, Akiton, and Eox exist within Golarion’s own
solar system, and then beyond this, orbiting other distant stars
or in other galaxies still, worlds such as Androffa, Carcosa, and
even Earth swirl within the Material Plane’s vast and silent void.
Yet for all the profound wonder and diversity of life that the
Material Plane houses, in the dark places between the stars,
known as the Dark Tapestry, lurk the inimical gods known
as the Outer Gods and Great Old Ones, the sinister collective
known as the Dominion of the Black.
And GM Core of the Remaster has the same text, also stating "The Dominion of the Black" being one of the Divinities of the Material Plane aka the Universe.
Do you guys have any info on the Dominion being retconned or smth?
What the intent as far as I can tell if this:
"In the Dark Tapestry lurk inimical gods (Known as the Outer Gods and Great Old Ones), as well as a sinister collective (known as the Dominion of Black)" I.e, it's not saying that the Dominion are gods, it's saying that the Great Old Ones and Outer Gods are and then continuing to the next thing. There does seem to be a missing "and" though, what is odd.
What the intent as far as I can tell if this:
"In the Dark Tapestry lurk inimical gods (Known as the Outer Gods and Great Old Ones), as well as a sinister collective (known as the Dominion of Black)" I.e, it's not saying that the Dominion are gods, it's saying that the Great Old Ones and Outer Gods are and then continuing to the next thing. There does seem to be a missing "and" though, what is odd.
The missing "and" would have been okay, had the GM Core not have this:
THE UNIVERSE PLANE
Category Inner Plane
Divinities Dominion of the Black, Gozreh
Native Inhabitants dwarves, elves, halflings, humans, gnomes,
goblins, and countless other ancestries
The Universe is the prosaic realm and the home of mortal life.
Innumerable galaxies play host to countless stars and their
planets, each housing unique settings for any campaign, with
Golarion as the classic example. Other worlds of note like
Castrovel, Akiton, Triaxus, and Eox exist within Golarion’s own
solar system, and then beyond this, orbiting other distant stars
or in other galaxies still, worlds such as Androffa and even Earth
swirl within the Universe’s vast and silent void.
Yet, for all the profound wonder and diversity of life that the
Universe houses, in the dark places between the stars known as
the Dark Tapestry, lurk the sinister collective of gods called the
Dominion of the Black.
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Divinities Dominion of the Black
This is what puzzled me the most
I would say that this: "sinister collective of gods called the Dominion of the Black" is the most suspect.Divinities Dominion of the BlackThis is what puzzled me the most
Yep, thank you, missed it. Even more straightforward, even more sus
Hello! I'm a representative of the sinister collective of entities known as the Dominion of the Black.
If anybody has any questions about our identities, I'd be happy to clear them up with a few lies. Or make them more obfuscated by telling the truth. One of those two. Let me know, thanks!
Log in, Ashen Man :D
Creative Director
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I'm not the Ashen Man, but I can confirm that while some of the Elder Mythos deities do dwell in the Dark Tapestry, there's a lot more than them there. And the Dominion of the Black is a parallel evil threat to the Elder Mythos that are on and off competing for space and don't generally work together.
The line cited in the entry for "The Universe" in GM Core has an error in it. I'll submit errata for eventual fixing, but a more accurate 2nd paragraph for this entry would read:
"...known as the Dark Tapestry, lurk sinister eldritch gods and the malevolent collective of alien beings known as the Dominion of the Black."
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Creative Director
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And of course, making it even more fun is the fact that the Ashen Man is neither a part of the Dominion of the Black OR one of the Elder Mythos outer gods/great old ones, but a bystander who's delighted in watching those things (and other things) destroy worlds.
I'm not the Ashen Man, but I can confirm that while some of the Elder Mythos deities do dwell in the Dark Tapestry, there's a lot more than them there. And the Dominion of the Black is a parallel evil threat to the Elder Mythos that are on and off competing for space and don't generally work together.
The line cited in the entry for "The Universe" in GM Core has an error in it. I'll submit errata for eventual fixing, but a more accurate 2nd paragraph for this entry would read:
"...known as the Dark Tapestry, lurk sinister eldritch gods and the malevolent collective of alien beings known as the Dominion of the Black."
While I was hoping to see you, I have developed a theory about a little forgotten "and" in the 2e GM Guide that has evolved into a complete different meaning in GM Core and caused all my confusion :)
Thank you very much, we will translate this piece by your errata! Good to know there was no retcon for this part of lore and DotB and the Elder Cults are still at each others throats :D
And of course, making it even more fun is the fact that the Ashen Man is neither a part of the Dominion of the Black OR one of the Elder Mythos outer gods/great old ones, but a bystander who's delighted in watching those things (and other things) destroy worlds.
Huh, and I thought him to be more of a heraldish figure for dear old Nyarlathotep. Guess the Ashen Man is less a servant, more an ally then?
He has become for me quite a prominent figure, an iconic villain of the Pathfinder universe and one that I came to enjoy over a lot of other cool characters (okay, yeah, I just love lovecraftian cosmic lore). I hope we see more of him someday (maybe when tomorrow burns?) :)
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And of course, making it even more fun is the fact that the Ashen Man is neither a part of the Dominion of the Black OR one of the Elder Mythos outer gods/great old ones, but a bystander who's delighted in watching those things (and other things) destroy worlds.
Huh, and I thought him to be more of a heraldish figure for dear old Nyarlathotep. Guess the Ashen Man is less a servant, more an ally then?
He has become for me quite a prominent figure, an iconic villain of the Pathfinder universe and one that I came to enjoy over a lot of other cool characters (okay, yeah, I just love lovecraftian cosmic lore). I hope we see more of him someday (maybe when tomorrow burns?) :)
I think more likely when Immortals go to war :
"Agents of the Pathfinder Society have reported more and more evidence of the Ashen Man in the form of ancient memoirs and recently discovered prophecies invalidated by the Age of Lost Omens. According to these predictions, a creature resembling the Ashen Man would usher in a calamity when a dozen hopefuls simultaneously contend for the Starstone, with dire consequences for Golarion and the Great Beyond. While the prophecies were originally forgotten after they failed to manifest on its predicted year, they have recently been brought back to the limelight by increasingly urgent reports on the Ashen Man"
From Pathfinderwiki, source = Absalom, city of lost omens.
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Just searched the forums for Ashen Man. OMG.
Yep, the man seems to be making his way to becoming a recurrent character.
By "when tomorrow burns" I meant the line written in "Age of Ashes" right below OGL in Book 6 (When tomorrow burns, will you see the Ashen Man?). Though I doubt it implied any connection between the AP and the Asgen Man
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Just searched the forums for Ashen Man. OMG.Yep, the man seems to be making his way to becoming a recurrent character.
By "when tomorrow burns" I meant the line written in "Age of Ashes" right below OGL in Book 6 (When tomorrow burns, will you see the Ashen Man?). Though I doubt it implied any connection between the AP and the Asgen Man
Indeed. More likely with the story hook provided in the Sandpoint book (again thanks to Pathfinderwiki for all the work) about having dreadful visions linked to both future and the Ashen Man. I believe James Jacobs confirmed in a way that this specific hook would be used in a product after the seven dooms of Sandpoint.
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*Looks at the Ashen Man lore and over at another section of the Absalom book and then a part of the vision from the end of Stolen Fate*
“Ultimate power within the grasp of almost countless hands.”
There is a war coming to the realm of the Gods, New Gods will rise, and more importantly there is a damn black site prison in Absalom containing individuals the city leadership actually believed had a good chance of ascending.
Things are falling together into an interesting way.
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I believe James Jacobs confirmed in a way that this specific hook would be used in a product after the seven dooms of Sandpoint.
Yes... but not IMMEDIATELY after Seven Dooms for Sandpoint. Won't be this year. Will be next year at the earliest and maybe not even then. In the meantime, there'll be other Ashen Man hints out here and there as well.