Picking the community brain (gestalt character)


Advice


Hello everyone, I'm here to try and pick the brain of the community. I've been playing almost every classes possible and tried numerous different combination, but I've decided to see other's opinion on the matter.

In my pathfinder group, we use a system called gestalt. For those of you who don't know, it's a dual class system where you take the best of 2 classes each level. For exemple, you can be a Fighter/Wizard, gaining the BAB, Fort saves and hit dice of the Fighter and the will save of the wizard. You also take the weapon and armor profficiency of the Fighter and all the skills of both classes. You then take everything else each class offers (bonus feat, spells, etc...)

Now that this is explained, there we go with the question. I want to make the best possible front liner, min-maxing everything possible. The new character will be level 8 (hoping to go all the way to 20), using 20 points buy and having 33 000 gp. We are usually using the "background generator" but choosing what we like, so that can be used for some extra little bonuses here and there (maximum 1 of each section except for classes since we have technically 2). As long as the information is on d20pfsrd or paizo, the DM usually allows it (except the races which needs to be a bit more traditionnal).

The rest of the party is as follow :

1 melee which focus mostly on sunder
1 melee sneaky casting relying on sneak attack
1 archer that is also our healer (not very efficient might I add)
1 bard that mostly focus on buffing us

You may or may not take that into account when pitching ideas :)

TLDR :

-min max as much as possible
-Gestalt character
-20 point buy stats
-level 8
-33 000 gp
-background generator bonuses
-front liner
-needs to be from d20pfsrd or paizo (no homebrew/RAW)


You should probably specify if it is only limited to 1st party content (made by Paizo) or if 3rd party sources are available, as d20pfsrd contains a LOT of material that is not specifically from Paizo.

Once you clear that up, I can offer some advice. What roles or function do you want your character to excel at? Front-liner only tells me that you want to be up in the thick of hit, likely heavy on the armor and hard to take down.


Dreamthief UnRogue / Paladin (archetype undecided)

Go with the Jealousy focus and max out charisma. Fey Foundling as your first feat, Targeted Mercy at level 6.

Dex-to-dmg, 10 skill ranks per level, Lay on Hands to regain HP, all good progression saves. Enemies must make a save for every attack or spell that doesn't target you or become staggered. And enemies that do target you must save vs a scaling DC Sanctuary to even be able to do so.

The Exchange

I’ll offer my general gestalt advice: one of your classes should have mostly passive class abilities (things that don’t take a standard or move action to activate). Because while gestalt characters have many more options than regular characters their action economy does not change.

Having said that, fighter makes a great choice for gestalt because their class abilities (and most of their bonus feat choices) are passive. How about an Oracle (Battle Mystery)/Fighter? That gives you full 9-level divine spellcasting as well as good front lining.

Another option is a fighter gestalted with sorcerer or wizard. Not as good front lining but it doesn’t look like you have much in the way of arcane spellcasting either.


DeathlessOne wrote:

You should probably specify if it is only limited to 1st party content (made by Paizo) or if 3rd party sources are available, as d20pfsrd contains a LOT of material that is not specifically from Paizo.

Once you clear that up, I can offer some advice. What roles or function do you want your character to excel at? Front-liner only tells me that you want to be up in the thick of hit, likely heavy on the armor and hard to take down.

Yes sorry I forgot about that. While the DM sometimes agree to 3rd party publishing, I try to avoid it. So it's up to you really, I'll deal with the rest ^_^


*Paladin/Summoner(synthesist). That gives you a lot of variety. Go full angel-mode.

*Paladin/Oracle. Very hard to kill and you get a full spell list.

Fighter/Magus. Very hard to kill and able to dish out big damage. With all of the extra feats you could easily use a whip. So, you could threaten at 10 feet and strike at 15. Your spell damage should be plenty of damage, but you could use advanced weapon training to grab focused weapon and get the warpriest damage table for the whip.


Noonesuspicious wrote:
Yes sorry I forgot about that. While the DM sometimes agree to 3rd party publishing, I try to avoid it. So it's up to you really, I'll deal with the rest ^_^

In that case, consider:

Bloodrager (Id Rager: Kindness) // Investigator (Reckless Epicurean)

You can get pretty much everything on this chassis except for 9th level spellcasting. Full BAB/Saves. Roles to fill in AND out of combat. 6+Int Modifier skill points. You can temporarily change your Id focus for flexibility. Your spellcasting is Psychic. Alchemy isn't spellcasting, so feel free to consume those extracts while raging. Pick up a Mutagen (and the more powerful versions) with your Talents. You'll get Lay on Hands of a Paladin, and eventually some mercies to throw around too.

If this sounds interesting, I could work up a build for you, depending on exactly how you want to progress such a character.


Constructed Pugilist 20//Jistkan Artificer 20

Play a Kasatha, who start with four arms, and can make extra attacks with each arm thanks to Multiweapon Fighting. There is also Multiweapon Defense and Multiweapon Specialist to consider.

You can also replace your extra two arms and your two legs with Clockwork Prosthesis.

If you do this, I'd recommend some levels of Clocksmith Wizard, which lets you take any familiar you qualify for, and make it a Clockwork Construct instead of what it would normally be. If you do this, you really should take the feat Hand's Detachment, and its prerequisites, which would make one of the Clockwork Prosthesis hands be possessed, detach from your arm, and become your familiar, which is now a Clockwork Construct thanks to the Clocksmith Wizard levels. Don't forget to add the Mauler archetype to your Hand Familiar, to make it extra strong, and if you do so, take the feat Mauler's Endurance to give it extra HP. Don't forget that due to the author's statement, the Mauler's Battle Form is a Polymorph effect. Since the Hand Familiar is Diminutive, it gets a +6 to Strength and -4 to Dexterity, per the Polymorph rules, on top of the changes for the Battle Form.

If you go down this path, you can replace the hand on the Clockwork Prosthesis with a Wizard Hook, and just have the hand familiar always detached. A Wizard Hook lets you cast spells through it in a similar way to how Magus do so with their weapons, so you can cast your Wizard Spells through it and get free attacks from the process.

Look into getting Alchemist levels on the side that does NOT have Wizard, up to four levels, to get two Vestigial Arms, so you can have a Shield and a free hand for potions, wands, etc, and look into (at a later level since it will put the total starting gp over what you specified when added with everything else) Arms of the Marilith which can give you extra Attacks of Opportunity.

Anyways, thanks for reading this far. Hope you like playing what is essentially a Construct Cyborg.


Dot


First of all, thank you all for the quick reply.

@tottemas -> that's a really interesting archetype that I wasn't aware of, thank you for this! I'll probably use it for other game! Although, I don't really like to loose the sneak attack with it.

@belafon -> these are what I usually do. For exemple, right now I'm doing a Fighter (Tower Shield Specialist)/Kineticist but I wanted to see what else was out there. There's so many stuff and even if I read lots of it, I haven't touched everything yet.

@Melkiador -> I love the Summoner/paladin idea. I'm working on a build as I write that and it looks promising! I'll look into your other suggestion afterwards

@Deathlessone -> I glance over what you sent, but they are classes I'm not too familiar with and I'll have to look deeper into it before making a real idea about it, sorry >_<

@Reksew_Trebla -> Wow that is quite the build! Although very interesting, my DM sadly won't allow it. I won't use it as my own character, but if I ever need to make a BBEG for a game I'll dm, I may keep it stashed somewhere *evil laugh*

@gm turin -> ?!


Noonesuspicious wrote:

First of all, thank you all for the quick reply.

@tottemas -> that's a really interesting archetype that I wasn't aware of, thank you for this! I'll probably use it for other game! Although, I don't really like to loose the sneak attack with it.

@belafon -> these are what I usually do. For exemple, right now I'm doing a Fighter (Tower Shield Specialist)/Kineticist but I wanted to see what else was out there. There's so many stuff and even if I read lots of it, I haven't touched everything yet.

@Melkiador -> I love the Summoner/paladin idea. I'm working on a build as I write that and it looks promising! I'll look into your other suggestion afterwards

@Deathlessone -> I glance over what you sent, but they are classes I'm not too familiar with and I'll have to look deeper into it before making a real idea about it, sorry >_<

@Reksew_Trebla -> Wow that is quite the build! Although very interesting, my DM sadly won't allow it. I won't use it as my own character, but if I ever need to make a BBEG for a game I'll dm, I may keep it stashed somewhere *evil laugh*

@gm turin -> ?!

May I ask why they won't allow it? Everything I listed is first party Pathfinder.

EDIT: In either case, if you use this for an evil NPC, replace one Vestigial Arm's hand with a Maniac Hand. Along with some other stuff, it'll give you an extra attack, and Vestigial Arms, despite not giving extra attacks on their own, are noted as being able to make attacks in place of a normal arm, though again, this is an extra attack. It has to be an evil NPC, because the Maniac Hand is technically a cursed item that forces you to sacrifice innocent creatures every now and then, otherwise it will try to make you its sacrifice.

Also, consider replacing the last Vestigial Arm's hand with the artifact Nargrym's Steel Hand, just cause you can since you'll be the GM.


A Slayer/Inquisitor gives you full BAB, good saves (fort & reflex, plus fort & will), all the ranger & thief abilities, studied target, and bane. Plus some divine spell casting.

Alternately, a Slayer/White-haired Witch gives you full BAB, good saves, all the ranger & thief abilities, studied target, full spell casting, 15-30' reach (since you start at 8th level), swift action constrict, free action grapple, swift action trip, and strangulation. And you are not grappled when your hair is grappling an opponent. In fact, this is nuts. You would need the feats: Arcane Armor Training & Arcane Armor Mastery.


@Reksew_Trebla -> Because it doesn't fit his world setting. Same goes for mithral, he doesn't want us to make any of our stuff in it -_-

@Northern Spotted Owl -> I'll look into that as well! thanks ^_^


Northern Spotted Owl wrote:
Alternately, a Slayer/White-haired Witch gives you full BAB, good saves, all the ranger & thief abilities, studied target, full spell casting, 15-30' reach (since you start at 8th level), swift action constrict, free action grapple, swift action trip, and strangulation. And you are not grappled when your hair is grappling an opponent. In fact, this is nuts. You would need the feats: Arcane Armor Training & Arcane Armor Mastery.

Have you tried playing that? It sounds cool at first, but thinking about it, it seems like all the various checks would just get annoying to run every round.


If you really want to min max play an Archaeologist Bard/Paladin. You get full BAB, all good saves, CHA to save, a bunch of immunities, good skill, both divine prepared and spontaneous arcane casting, evasion. You are a better rogue than an actual rogue. Make sure on of your spells is Heroism and you can get a +5 (with the trait fates favored) on nearly everything.

Another good combination would be ranger/inquisitor. Again, you get full BAB, all good save, two spell lists, lots of class abilities from both sides. Ranger gives you combat feats that allow you to ignore prerequisites, favored enemy and terrain, Inquisitor gives you bane bonus on some skills, judgements and a domain or inquisition. Once you get to 10th level you have both evasion and stalwart so if you make your save (all good saves) you take no effect from any spell.


If you are worried about saves, the fighter has advanced weapon trainings for reflex and will. I personally don't worry as much about reflex, especially with the other gestalt abilities you'll have to prevent or recover from reflex failures.


Stuff I like for Gestalting:

Bloodrager/Oracle
You do need a feat (mad magic) to cast spells while Bloodraging, but oracle offers ragecycling, good will saves, lots of utility and goes of the same casting stat.

Bloodrager/archeologist bard
Be a face, a skill monkey, slap really hard and have 2 spell lists with surprisingly little overlap. Nearly as strong as Paladin/archeologist bard

The Exchange

Liliyashanina wrote:

Bloodrager/Oracle

You do need a feat (mad magic) to cast spells while Bloodraging, but oracle offers ragecycling, good will saves, lots of utility and goes of the same casting stat.

Along these lines, what’s your GM’s position on Prestige Classes? 5 levels of Barbarian/Oracle followed by Rage Prophet/Oracle could be very strong.

Or Oracle and Sorcerer for 4 levels, then Mystic Theurge/Fighter for 2 levels, then Mystic Theurge/Eldritch Knight.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

If you want to min/max Str to an absurd degree, you could use the alchemist (clone master) 14/master chymist 6//bloodrager (primalist) 16/dragon disciple 4 from this post in 2022. You basically trade +1 BAB for +4 Str with four levels of dragon disciple, while boosting your Will save a bit. At 10th level, with Doppelganger Simulacrum, you can adventure using a "duplicate" and have another PC carry a "replacement body" in a bag of holding.

First 8 levels:
Half-elf with Adaptability (Skill Focus [Knowledge/Planes]) and Multitalented (Alchemist, Bloodrager)
Alc 1//Bld 1- Bloodline (Draconic/[any]); Power Attack; FCB +1 round bloodrage
Alc 2//Bld 2- Discovery (Feral Mutagen); FCB +1 round bloodrage
Alc 3//Bld 3- Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal); FCB +1 round bloodrage
Alc 4//Bld 4- Discovery (? [probably bomb-related]); FCB +1 formula
Alc 5//Bld 5- Martial Focus (? [probably Heavy Blades]); FCB +1 formula
Alc 6//DD 1- Discovery (Wings); FCB +1 formula
Alc 7//DD 2- Bloodline Feat (Toughness); Cut from the Air; FCB +1 formula
Alc 8//DD 3- Discovery (Alchemical Simulacrum); FCB +1 formula


Melkiador wrote:
Northern Spotted Owl wrote:
Alternately, a Slayer/White-haired Witch gives you full BAB, good saves, all the ranger & thief abilities, studied target, full spell casting, 15-30' reach (since you start at 8th level), swift action constrict, free action grapple, swift action trip, and strangulation. And you are not grappled when your hair is grappling an opponent. In fact, this is nuts. You would need the feats: Arcane Armor Training & Arcane Armor Mastery.
Have you tried playing that? It sounds cool at first, but thinking about it, it seems like all the various checks would just get annoying to run every round.

Ha. Fair point.

I've never played a gestalt game. Always wanted to play a white-haired witch, but outside gestalt it's a bit of a sad class (1/2 BAB and low hp).

Let's say you trip/grapple/constrict everyone within 15', then cast vomit swarm. Tell me we're not having fun now. Maybe cast chill touch while you're at it. Add in excruciating deformation when you really feel like it.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

If you really want to min max play an Archaeologist Bard/Paladin. You get full BAB, all good saves, CHA to save, a bunch of immunities, good skill, both divine prepared and spontaneous arcane casting, evasion. You are a better rogue than an actual rogue. Make sure on of your spells is Heroism and you can get a +5 (with the trait fates favored) on nearly everything.

Another good combination would be ranger/inquisitor. Again, you get full BAB, all good save, two spell lists, lots of class abilities from both sides. Ranger gives you combat feats that allow you to ignore prerequisites, favored enemy and terrain, Inquisitor gives you bane bonus on some skills, judgements and a domain or inquisition. Once you get to 10th level you have both evasion and stalwart so if you make your save (all good saves) you take no effect from any spell.

It occurs to me that your ranger/inquisitor and my slayer/inquisitor are nearly the same suggestion.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Noonesuspicious wrote:
1 archer that is also our healer (not very efficient might I add)

For an efficient archer/healer, a variation on the gestalt from the 2022 post I linked that would work is:

Aasimar with Incorruptible, Scion of Humanity, Truespeaker, Favored Class (Oracle)
Magus (eldritch archer) 20//oracle (spirit guide; Wood mystery) 16/deadye devotee 4
Mag 1//Ora 1- Ranged Weapon Bond (composite longbow), Oracle's Curse (Tongues), Revelation (Wood Bond); Point Blank Shot; FCB +1/2 effective level with Wood Bond
Mag 2//Ora 2- n/a; FCB +1/2 effective level with Wood Bond
Mag 3//Ora 3- Arcana (Arcane Accuracy), Bonded Spirit (Life; Hex- Enhanced Cures); Precise Shot; FCB +1/2 effective level with Wood Bond
Mag 4//Ora 4- n/a; FCB +1/2 effective level with Wood Bond
Mag 5//Ora 5- Bonus Feat (Rapid Shot); Weapon Focus (Longbow); FCB +1/2 effective level with Wood Bond
Mag 6//Ora 6- Arcana (Broad Study); FCB +1/2 effective level with Wood Bond
Mag 7//Ora 7- Bonded Spirit (Spirit Ability- Channel); Intensified Spell; FCB +1/2 effective level with Wood Bond
Mag 8//Ora 8- n/a; FCB +1/2 effective level with Wood Bond

Next level, go Mag 9//DDev 1- Arcana (Reach Spellstrike); Far Shot. Then, Mag 10-12//DDev 2-4 to pick up Imbue Arrow and Energy Arrow before resuming Mag 13-20//Ora 9-16; only boost Wood Bond to Ora 12 before taking Fast Learner at Ora 13 for +1 hp and +1 skill rank after that (with Wood Bond and the FCB, the character has an effective attack bonus with bows at each level equal to a full BAB character with a lag on the lowest iterative; before divine favor or divine power).


If you're still looking for ideas, might I suggest:

Brute Vigilante 8//Alchemist 7/Master Chymist 1?

Take levels of Brute only on the Vigilante side, and take more levels in Master Chymist on the Alchemist side, until you have ten levels in it, then take the remaining levels in Alchemist.

You have two alternate forms. What's more, nothing in them prevents you from assuming both of these forms at the same time. You are basically the Incredible Hulk, including his history of having multiple personalities/forms and even his history of combining forms.

Of course, be prepared to have the book thrown at you, as you could attack your fellow PCs due to the Brute form's rules. And a possible reading of both the Mutagenic form and Brute form, when assuming both at once, could require you to pass both forms' saving throws at once to return to normal form, instead of doing them individually.


Northern Spotted Owl wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:

If you really want to min max play an Archaeologist Bard/Paladin. You get full BAB, all good saves, CHA to save, a bunch of immunities, good skill, both divine prepared and spontaneous arcane casting, evasion. You are a better rogue than an actual rogue. Make sure on of your spells is Heroism and you can get a +5 (with the trait fates favored) on nearly everything.

Another good combination would be ranger/inquisitor. Again, you get full BAB, all good save, two spell lists, lots of class abilities from both sides. Ranger gives you combat feats that allow you to ignore prerequisites, favored enemy and terrain, Inquisitor gives you bane bonus on some skills, judgements and a domain or inquisition. Once you get to 10th level you have both evasion and stalwart so if you make your save (all good saves) you take no effect from any spell.

It occurs to me that your ranger/inquisitor and my slayer/inquisitor are nearly the same suggestion.

The main difference is the ranger gets spells vs the slayers sneak attack. Personally I think spells are a better choice. Favored enemy is always active but studied target requires an action. Since the character is starting at 8th level it will be a swift or move action. The problem is that competes with Judgements which is also a swift action. The ranger’s favored enemy is not as flexible, but does not require any action so can be used in conjunction with judgements in round 1. Ranger also can take an animal companion for his hunter bond and have the companion take the teamwork feats.

The fact the character is starting out at 8th level gives him more flexibility on feats. If the character does go for the animal companion he should be able to afford boon companion to boost it to full animal companion status. He also has enough levels to boost the INT high enough to take feats animals cannot normally take.


Go with barbarian/investigator. I would go unchained for the temp hp.
You get full BAB, d12 hp, all good saves, 6 skill points per level, and almost every skill is a class skill.
You use your extracts for long term buffs or healing.
One of your discoveries should be mutagen for redonculus strength.
I would take vital strike as a feat because you will be using move actions for studied combat and possibly stance rage powers.

Base stats:
Str 18 (+2 for 8th level)
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 7


DeathlessOne wrote:

Bloodrager (Id Rager: Kindness) // Investigator (Reckless Epicurean)

If this sounds interesting, I could work up a build for you, depending on exactly how you want to progress such a character.

I went ahead and put together a stat block for this character at level 8, if you decide you want to consider it:

The Build:
Half-elf bloodrager (id rager) 8 // investigator (reckless epicurean) 8
Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +4; Senses: Perception +10 (+14 to identify potions)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 30, touch 11, flat-footed 27 (+8 armor, +3 Dex, +7 natural, -2 rage, +4 shield)
hp 122 (8d10+42) [[88 average hp]]
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +9; +2 bonus vs. spells cast by self or an ally, +6 bonus vs. poison & infested substances, +2 bonus vs. negative levels
Defensive Abilities: A Familiar Taste, Blood Sanctuary (+2), Improved Uncanny Dodge, Trap Sense +2; DR 1/—
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed: 40 ft. (30 ft. in armor)
Melee:
[normal] +1 Furious great sword +15 (2d6+13, 19-20/x2)
[raging/mutagen/studied] +3 Furious great sword +21 (4d6+21, 19-20/x2, plus 3d6+4 melee precision damage)
Special Attacks: Blood Casting, Bloodrage (28 rounds/day), Studied Combat (+4, 2 rounds), Studied Strike +3d6
Bloodrager (Id Rager) Spells Known (CL 8th; concentration +10)
2nd (2/day)—force sword, mirror image, touch of idiocy
1st (2/day)—blade lash, cheetah's sprint, feather fall, wave shield
Investigator (Reckless Epicurean) Extracts Prepared (CL 8th; concentration +10)
3rd—cure serious wounds, orchid's drop
2nd—ablative barrier, cure moderate wounds, ironskin, lesser restoration, see invisibility
1st—blurred movement, cure light wounds, enlarge person, shield (2)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 23, Dex 18, Con 20, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 14
Base Atk +8; CMB +15; CMD 26
Feats Extra: Divine Fighting Technique (Gorum's Swordmanship), Furious Focus, Iron Will, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Spell Penetration, Vital Strike
Traits: helpful
Skills: Acrobatics +15, Appraise +6, Bluff +6, Climb +10, Craft (alchemy) +13 (+21 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy +14, Disable Device +15, Disguise +6 (+10 to appear human), Escape Artist +8, Fly +5, Handle Animal +6, Heal +3, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (arcana) +6, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (engineering) +6, Knowledge (geography) +6, Knowledge (history) +6, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (nobility) +6, Knowledge (planes) +10, Knowledge (religion) +10, Linguistics +6, Perception +10 (+14 to identify potions), Ride +8, Sense Motive +3, Sleight of Hand +8, Spellcraft +13 (+17 to identify potions), Stealth +8, Survival +3, Swim +10, Use Magic Device +13
Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Necril, Sylvan
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +8), atavistic avatar, benevolent, elf blood, experimental potable, fast movement, inspiration (8/day), investigator talents (infusion, mutagen), keen recollection, lay on hands (4d6, 6/day), mutagen (+4/-2, +2 natural armor, 80 minutes), opening strike, poison lore, round ears, shadowhunter, swift alchemy
Combat Gear: mutagen; Other Gear +2 fitting mountain pattern armor, +1 furious great sword, belt of physical perfection +2, investigator starting formula book, 2,180 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
A Familiar Taste (Ex): Poison resist/immunity apply to all ingested substances with harmful effects.
Alchemy +8 (Su): +8 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Atavistic Avatar (Su): When raging, you count as both a spiritualist and a phantom.
Benevolent: Increase aid another bonuses granted by 1.
Blood Casting (Su): Cast bloodrager spells while in bloodrage.
Blood Sanctuary +2 (Su): +2 bonus to save vs. spells cast by self or an ally.
Bloodrage (28 rounds/day) (Su): +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Damage Reduction (1/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Experimental Potable (2/day) (Su): Create an extract from a forumla you don't know but risk random side effect.
Fast Movement +10 (Ex): +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >= 12) (Ex): Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed. You cannot be flanked unless the attacker is Level 12+.
Infusion: Create an extract can be used by anyone but takes up a slot until used.
Inspiration (+1d6, 8/day) (Ex): Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Keen Recollection: At 3rd level, an investigator can attempt all Knowledge skill checks untrained.
Lay on Hands (4d6, 8/day) (Su) You can heal 4d6 damage, 6/day
Mutagen (DC 16) (Su): Mutagen adds +4/-2 to physical/mental attributes, and +2 nat. armor for 80 minutes.
Opening Strike (Su): Standard action melee attack, on hit grants ally imm act attack vs. same foe.
Poison Lore (Ex): After 1 min can use Know to ID poisons, 1 min more to neutralize with Craft (alchemy).
Power Attack -3/+6: You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Round Ears: +4 to disguise to appear human.
Shadowhunter: Attacks affect incorp foes as though use magic weapon, 2x phys ab heal from undead, +2 to save vs. neg levels.
Studied Combat (+4, 2 rounds) (Ex): As a move action, study foe to gain bonus to att & dam for duration or until use studied strike.
Studied Strike +3d6 (Ex): As a free action on a melee hit, end studied combat vs. foe to add precision dam.
Swift Alchemy (Ex): Construct alchemical items in half the normal time.
Trap Sense +2 (Ex): +2 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Vital Strike: Standard action x2 weapon damage dice.

Stats and Level up selections:
Half-Elf (Shadowhunter & Round Ears)
Ability Scores (20pts: Str 17 (15+2), Dex 12, Con 13 (+1 @ 4), Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 13 (+1 @ 8)
Traits: Helpful & [[Your choice]]
Favored Classes Bonuses: Every level +1 rage round // +1/3 Inspiration Use per day
Feats: 1-Power Attack, 3-Furious Focus, 5-Divine Fighting Technique (Gorum's Swordmanship), 7-Vital Strike
*Alternatively, if you don't want to worship Gorum, take Extra Investigator Talent (effortless aid) to allow you to assist others in combat as a move action (or swift while spending inspiration). Consider using a Nodachi or similar weapon with 18-20 critical range if you do.

Typical Battle Strategy:
The only 'buffs' you need to activate in combat are the Shield spell, as the other non-situational spells have minute per level (or longer) durations. You can also 'hand out' your extracts (due to Infusions) to buff your allies. With Cheetah's Sprint, you can close in the distance rapidly with a charge, so ambushing is a fairly handy tactic. Pop your rage while racing in, or wait until your next turn so your AC isn't lower. Studied Combat doesn't have a distance limitation. You only need to see them.
1st round Pre-combat: Study Combat (spend a point of inspiration) + Shield Extract.
1st Round of Combat: Cheetah Sprint (swift) + 300ft or less Charge (Full Round Action Vital Strike) + Studied Strike (free action) [[4d6+18+3d6+4 damage = 46.5 average damage]]
2nd Round of Combat: bloodRAGE!!! (free action) + Study Combat (move) + Opening Strike* (standard action + ally gets to hit too), lay on hands (swift - because they probably hit you back) [[2d6+25 = 32 average damage plus ally damage]]
3rd round of combat: Opening Strike* (standard action: ally gets free strike) + Studied Strike (free) + Study Combat (move - original target likely dead at this point, switch to a new one) + lay on hands (swift) [[2d6+21+3d6+4 damage = 42.5 average plus whatever your ally just did]]

*You can opt to use Vital Strike instead of Opening Strike if you don't have an ally nearby to grant a free immediate action attack. It is an average of 7 more damage per hit if you do so.

Alternatively, you could choose to make full attack actions, but you do need to restart your Studied combat every 3rd round, or every other round if you use your mutagen to boost strength (which lowers Intelligence) or choose to spend it for more damage every round. I'd recommend that whenever you need to re-up your Studied Combat, you use Opening Strike so that an ally can get a free attack.

If you chose to go with Effortless Aid as an Investigator Talent (which will be completely redundant by level 17, retrain it then), you will likely be burning your Inspiration points to use swift actions to give your allies a nearly free +4 to their next attack action (aid another), which can pair well with giving them free attacks with Opening Strike, or to boost their AC by 4 if you want to use Vital Strike instead.

Above all else, remember this: You are incredibly skilled with potions, alchemy, and POISONS. You can hit hard but that is a small part of what you can do. You can abuse drugs and other risky substances with near impunity.


Well, I once had a character that buzzsawed enemies. Go Hunter on one side and 4 levels of Unchained Rogue on the other, followed by Fighter or maybe Warpriest for swift action self-buffing.

Combat Reflexes at level 1, Outflank at 2, Pack Flanking and Paired Opportunists at 3. Grab a scimitar, cutlass, or rapier - anything with a 18-20 crit range and slap Keen on it. Then just boost attack and damage for you and your animal companion. You will crit threaten on a nat 15 and start a chain of AoOs on a confirm. I nearly made my GM cry with this combo and I wasn't even gestalt.


Thank you everyone for your ideas, it was very fun to find new archetype/combination. I still haven't tried everything you've sent me but I'll be sure to try them all


Kineticist (Necrotech Master, Elemental Purist, Dread Soul, Elemental Annihilator, or Elemental Ascetic) and Summoner (Synthesist) is as broken as it gets. With Necrotech Master, Cha is your primary stat and you can just dump your physical stats altogether. With Elemental Ascetic, Elemental Purist, and Dread Soul, choosing Aether, Light, Mind, or Wood allows you to choose Life After Undeath to have Cha as your primary stat. If that's not your cup of tea, tack Overwhelming Soul onany archetype it applies to.

Elemental Ascetic in particular gets Elemental Flurry allows you to do a Flurry of Blows with your Kinetic Fist and the Eidolon’s natural attacks.

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