Magnificent Menagerie: A PF2e Remaster Familiar Guide

[Trip.H]

Pre-post edit: found it. Constructs still insta-die at 0 HP after the Remaster, in the "Getting Knocked Out" section on PC 410

Quote:

Creatures can't be reduced to fewer than 0 Hit Points. When most creatures reach 0 Hit Points, they die and are removed from play unless the attack was nonlethal, in which case they're instead knocked out for a significant amount of time (usually 10 minutes or more). When undead and constructs reach 0 Hit Points, they're destroyed.

The Construct f.ability grants the Construct creature trait, so it imposes those rules.

It's completely black and white that all construct familiars instantly die if they are ever reduced to 0 HP. Wow.

(I really, really hate that the Construct trait was truncated and had all the mechanical info deleted in the remaster.)

I should not have to special search AoN to find that yes, constructs still have the insta-death mechanic.

Which means that yes, Alchemists being bizarrely forced to create a construct instead of a living being is a ridiculous nerf that (hopefully) pushes more PCs to archetype out of Alchemist for their familiar. (Or just Archetype into Alchemist and avoid the class entirely)
There's just no excuse for *forcing* such a double-edged trait like that, if it was optional I would have 0 issue with the change.

Not really sure I understand the reason for omitting this issue from the guide, nor why the trait is worth a 3 star rating as an f.ability. Familiars having low HP means that the ability to drop dying and get brought back up is rather dang important to their survival.

Construct screws them from both ends. Not only do they insta-die, but you cannot normally/easily heal them in combat if they are a construct. If your familiar takes chip damage from an AoE save, needing something like Quick Repair Legendary Crafting to even being to make that combat heal practical is an absurd ask.

[Ritunn]

Trip.H wrote:

Pre-post edit: found it. Constructs still insta-die at 0 HP after the Remaster, in the "Getting Knocked Out" section on PC 410

Quote:

Creatures can't be reduced to fewer than 0 Hit Points. When most creatures reach 0 Hit Points, they die and are removed from play unless the attack was nonlethal, in which case they're instead knocked out for a significant amount of time (usually 10 minutes or more). When undead and constructs reach 0 Hit Points, they're destroyed.

The Construct f.ability grants the Construct creature trait, so it imposes those rules.

It's completely black and white that all construct familiars instantly die if they are ever reduced to 0 HP. Wow.

(I really, really hate that the Construct trait was truncated and had all the mechanical info deleted in the remaster.)

I should not have to special search AoN to find that yes, constructs still have the insta-death mechanic.

Which means that yes, Alchemists being bizarrely forced to create a construct instead of a living being is a ridiculous nerf that (hopefully) pushes more PCs to archetype out of Alchemist for their familiar. (Or just Archetype into Alchemist and avoid the class entirely)
There's just no excuse for *forcing* such a double-edged trait like that, if it was optional I would have 0 issue with the change.

Not really sure I understand the reason for omitting this issue from the guide, nor why the trait is worth a 3 star rating as an f.ability. Familiars having low HP means that the ability to drop dying and get brought back up is rather dang important to their survival.

Construct screws them from both ends. Not only do they insta-die, but you cannot normally/easily heal them in combat if they are a construct. If your familiar takes chip damage from an AoE save, needing something like Quick Repair Legendary Crafting to even being to make that combat heal practical is an absurd ask.

Your mileage will really vary. I've had no issue with it myself in play and it does offer several handy immunities still. At the end of the day, the goal is to not have your familiar ever take enough damage to reduce it to 0 and having some stuff that makes that goal easier is nice, even if it comes at the cost of in-combat heals, which I've rarely had to worry about in most games outside of witch. It's a perfectly acceptable ability provided you got Crafting handy from my point of view.

If more folks want to share their opinion regarding it, I may reconsider the rating while handling the new content I'm going over for Rival Academies right now.

[TheKazM]

I am relatively new to Pf2e so apologies in advance if this is a very basic question, I am making a Witch at 11th level (to replace a dead Bard) and in this truly excellent and very helpful guide, you've noted "Familiar Master is one of the best archetypes for familiar aficionados who don’t happen to be a witch." Why is Witch excluded?

[Mangaholic13]

TheKazM wrote:

I am relatively new to Pf2e so apologies in advance if this is a very basic question, I am making a Witch at 11th level (to replace a dead Bard) and in this truly excellent and very helpful guide, you've noted "Familiar Master is one of the best archetypes for familiar aficionados who don’t happen to be a witch." Why is Witch excluded?

Because Witches can do some pretty crazy and powerful things with their familiars that the other classes cannot.

For instance, depending on the patron, the familiar can unleash different effects whenever the Witch casts or sustains a Hex.

A good example is the "Stitched Familiar" and "Spirit Familiar" Witch feats. Those give your familiar the ability to ATTACK! Sure, they can only do it once every 10 minutes, but no other familiar can use damaging moves.

[TheKazM]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

TheKazM wrote:

I am relatively new to Pf2e so apologies in advance if this is a very basic question, I am making a Witch at 11th level (to replace a dead Bard) and in this truly excellent and very helpful guide, you've noted "Familiar Master is one of the best archetypes for familiar aficionados who don’t happen to be a witch." Why is Witch excluded?

Because Witches can do some pretty crazy and powerful things with their familiars that the other classes cannot.

For instance, depending on the patron, the familiar can unleash different effects whenever the Witch casts or sustains a Hex.

A good example is the "Stitched Familiar" and "Spirit Familiar" Witch feats. Those give your familiar the ability to ATTACK! Sure, they can only do it once every 10 minutes, but no other familiar can use damaging moves.

But why does that exclude Familiar Master from being one of the best archetypes for Witch specifically? Is it simply that Witch has better options? I am making a resentment Witch so I am more interested in the survivability and maneouverability of my familiar as opposed to damage output.

[Mangaholic13]

TheKazM wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

TheKazM wrote:

I am relatively new to Pf2e so apologies in advance if this is a very basic question, I am making a Witch at 11th level (to replace a dead Bard) and in this truly excellent and very helpful guide, you've noted "Familiar Master is one of the best archetypes for familiar aficionados who don’t happen to be a witch." Why is Witch excluded?

Because Witches can do some pretty crazy and powerful things with their familiars that the other classes cannot.

For instance, depending on the patron, the familiar can unleash different effects whenever the Witch casts or sustains a Hex.

A good example is the "Stitched Familiar" and "Spirit Familiar" Witch feats. Those give your familiar the ability to ATTACK! Sure, they can only do it once every 10 minutes, but no other familiar can use damaging moves.

But why does that exclude Familiar Master from being one of the best archetypes for Witch specifically? Is it simply that Witch has better options? I am making a resentment Witch so I am more interested in the survivability and maneuverability of my familiar as opposed to damage output.

The first.

Witches can do far more with their Familiar by themselves than any other class can WITH Familiar Master.
As for survivability, a Witch's phase familiar hex allows them to give their familiar resistance 5 to damage and immunity to precision damage as a reaction. And the resistance increases with each rank.

[Ritunn]

TheKazM wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

TheKazM wrote:

I am relatively new to Pf2e so apologies in advance if this is a very basic question, I am making a Witch at 11th level (to replace a dead Bard) and in this truly excellent and very helpful guide, you've noted "Familiar Master is one of the best archetypes for familiar aficionados who don’t happen to be a witch." Why is Witch excluded?

Because Witches can do some pretty crazy and powerful things with their familiars that the other classes cannot.

For instance, depending on the patron, the familiar can unleash different effects whenever the Witch casts or sustains a Hex.

A good example is the "Stitched Familiar" and "Spirit Familiar" Witch feats. Those give your familiar the ability to ATTACK! Sure, they can only do it once every 10 minutes, but no other familiar can use damaging moves.

But why does that exclude Familiar Master from being one of the best archetypes for Witch specifically? Is it simply that Witch has better options? I am making a resentment Witch so I am more interested in the survivability and maneouverability of my familiar as opposed to damage output.

It's also important to note that Witch gets pretty much all the feats available to Familiar Master already. It's a perfectly fine archetype to take if you don't have anything else in mind for archetypes and you were going to take Enhanced Familiar anyway, but Witch in particular gets no benefit in specific from it.

[Ritunn]

I've been sick the past week, so I've been slow writing stuff up in general, but the guide now has the new content from Lost Omens: Rival Academies covered! Additionally, it was brought to my attention AP 208 had a general companion item, so that was added as well.