I've read some discussions, in conclusion, how much health does the doppelganger Simulacrum have?

[PlayerPTF14]

I've read some discussions, in conclusion, how much health does the doppelganger Simulacrum have?

[Java Man]

Do you mean hit points? And are you asking about dopplegangers, simulacrum or something else?

[Dragonchess Player]

If you mean the Doppelganger Simulacrum alchemist discovery:

Quote:

Doppelganger Simulacrum (Su) (Ultimate Magic pg. 15): The alchemist learns how to create a simulacrum, a soulless duplicate, into which he can project his consciousness. As a full-round action, he may shift his consciousness from his current body to any one of his available doppelganger simulacra, which must be on the same plane as the alchemist. If killed in a simulacrum, he transfers to his own body automatically; if killed in his own body, he is dead. Unused simulacra (including his abandoned original body) appear to be lifeless corpses, though they do not decay. Creating a duplicate costs 1,000 gp in alchemical materials and requires 1 week to grow. An alchemist must be at least 10th level and must have the alchemical simulacrum discovery before selecting this discovery. The created simulacrum is a creature, not a supernatural effect.

Then a duplicate would have the alchemist's base Con and hp when shifting consciousness into one.

[Dragonchess Player]

For a more detailed answer: Track the hp for each body/duplicate individually.

[Azothath]

Alchemist Discoveries on AoN
it takes two discoveries, Alchemical Simulacrum (Su), then Doppelganger Simulacrum (Su). The first makes it clear it works like the Lesser Simulacrum spell and the second references Simulacrum spell. That means half the caster's HPs (and HD, etc which is a creature type and CR based scale). The physical ability scores should be static (Str, Dex Con).

[Joesi]

They are perfect copies of the character, so they'd have the same base HP as the character's base HP.

Note that things like abilities and spell effects are counted per consciousness, so it's not like you get refilled spell slots or uses per day of abilities by switching clones. And you'd have to reequip all your items too.

[Azothath]

Joesi wrote:

They are perfect copies of the character, so they'd have the same base HP as the character's base HP.

just read the spells and do what they say...

[Diego Rossi]

Joesi wrote:

They are perfect copies of the character, so they'd have the same base HP as the character's base HP.

AoN wrote:

Greater Alchemical Simulacrum (Su) (Ultimate Magic pg. 16): The alchemist gains the ability to create a simulacrum. This works like the simulacrum spell, ...

Simulacron wrote:

...

It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD).
...

Very clear and concise. Half HD/levels and appropriate hp.

[Zehnpai]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Very clear and concise. Half HD/levels and appropriate hp.

Important to note that the Simulacrum spell allows you to create something that has up to twice your HD, then divide by half. With greater alchemical simulacrum for example, you can create a copy of yourself that has twice your HD, but then cut in half, so equal to your HD.

So I would rule that Doppelganger Simulacrum has your full HD and HP.

It also follows in power progression. Lesser Simulacrum lasts a short time and only half your HD. Doppleganger is your HD and lasts as long as you, but only one body can be active at a time. Greater Simulacrum let's you create copies of yourself that can all be active at the same time. An army of yourself.

This is why most tables I've played at bans the use of the spell or at least severely limits what's allowed with it.

[Pizza Lord]

There are three simulacrum discoveries.
Alchemical Simulacrum functions as lesser simulacrum
Greater Alchemical Simulacrum functions as simulacrum
Doppleganger Simulacrum functions as simulacrum but only to copy yourself.

Alchemical Simulacrum/lesser simulacrum requires Alchemist 8 and lets you copy a creature that has HD up to your CL (it can be lower), but the simulacrum will have half that amount. It doesn't matter what your CL is; if the copied creature has 4 HD, the simulacrum will have 2 HD (and feats, class skills, etc. appropriate). It will also have no magical abilities and not be under your control (but recognizes you as its creator).

Greater Alchemical Simulacrum/simulacrum (which isn't mentioned in this post) requires Alchemist 14 and lets you create a copy of a creature of up to twice your CL. If you're CL 12, then you can create a copy of a 24 HD creature, but it will be a 12 HD simulacrum (and you pay for each HD of the simulacrum accordingly, in this case 12 (HD)x 100 and 24 hours). The simulacrum is under your control. It doesn't allow you to arbitrarily set the 'virtual' power of a creature higher than it actually is to break the half-HD threshold (though maybe there could be a feat line or FCB or something to allow a +1 or +2 leeway).

Doppleganger simulacrum/simulacrum can be learned at Alchemist 10 and allows you to create a simulacrum of yourself only (at 1,000 gp per HD of the simulacrum and 1 week of work/growing). These cannot be controlled by you like a simulacrum and are inert unless you take control of them (and your original body then becomes inert) by transferring you soul into them (as a full-round action and can be done anywhere on the same plane). The doppleganger simulacrums can be entered and used, but the bodies are half-HD copies of yours (at the time of creation) and cannot advance. While in one, I would treat it as magic jar/possession rules, meaning you keep your level for mental issues, like skills, BAB, spells, etc. but all body related things are at the copy's HD (hit points, physical stats if they were increased every 4HD, size if you are a creature whose sizes increases based on HD, resistances to energy or DR based on HD, etc.).

When you create a copy of yourself (with doppleganger simulacrum), if you're a 14th level caster then the copy will be 7th. If you are just using a simulacrum affect (which can copy other creatures), you can create a copy of a creature up to 28HD, but if the creature you are copying has 10HD, you can't advance it to 20HD virtually to get a 10HD copy.

[Zehnpai]

Ah, the way we ruled it was PC's were an edge case because they could exist eventually and because prognostication exists in Pathfinder, you can create a copy of your future self.

The downside of DM'ing for a psychologist.

Yeah, half-HD it is then.