Multi-attack variation

[Richter Bones]

I was wondering if there are any character rules that have a variation on the multi-attack. I had this idea for a character that the initial attacks are not designed to hit but to distract and create an opening. For example, if you reverse the penalties starting with the -10, then -5, and end with a flourishing finish. Depending on the success of the first attacks can define how the finishing attack works.

This is without balancing but I was thinking that a critical failure on either of the first 2 attacks keeps you from using your finishing attack. Failures or better on the first 2 attacks allows you to use the finishing move. Success on both the initial attacks gives you an automatic critical success on the finishing move.

Styles can be added as well that would give variation to how each attack can add to the finishing attack based on their level of success.

Any thoughts or is there something out there already like this?

[Arcaian]

The primary intent of the multi-attack penalty is to ensure you don't want to spend 3 actions attacking - there are possible variations on it explored through action-compressors to make 2 attacks for 1 action, or MAP evaders where you make 2 attacks for 2 actions but don't increase MAP until later. Other than that, I've not seen much - and I'd be careful with any design that ended up incentivizing making 3 strikes a turn :) Even if it was balanced, it'd get boring to play very very quickly.

[Karmagator]

Afaik there is nothing even remotely like this in the game, no.

[Claxon]

I would say what you're asking for mechanically is a feint, followed up by some attack that capitalizes on the feint. It honestly sounds like a fencer Swashbuckler type character.

Just don't expect to see your "opening attacks" as actual attack rolls and consider them as feints instead and you'll probably find a lot of things in the game to represent what you want.

[Easl]

Claxon wrote:

I would say what you're asking for mechanically is a feint, followed up by some attack that capitalizes on the feint.

Yeah it pretty much meets the ask. Take an action, make a deception check vs. Perception, if you succeed you get a bonus to your next strike. No MAP is applied to the after-feint attack because the deception check wasn't an attack.

I can see a player maybe wanting something that doesn't link to CHA so that a 'pure fighter' can feint, but that's the only part of the current action that maybe doesn't meet the OP's request.

[Claxon]

A fighter even with only a +1 charisma that is investing skill feats and increases into Deception for feinting is going to do just fine, even if their ability score contribution isn't max. It's a difference of probably around 2-3 points max, compared to something like Swashbuckler that still needs dex, con, etc too. It's not like they can afford to start with 18 charisma either.

[Easl]

Claxon wrote:

A fighter even with only a +1 charisma that is investing skill feats and increases into Deception for feinting is going to do just fine, even if their ability score contribution isn't max. It's a difference of probably around 2-3 points max, compared to something like Swashbuckler that still needs dex, con, etc too. It's not like they can afford to start with 18 charisma either.

Ah I should've said martial, not fighter. As in: I can see the value of a maneuver open to all melee weapon type characters (including the Swash) that lets them do a 1a feint using combat proficiency rather than Cha/Deception, for the same feint benefit. Then if the OP is looking for a Swash-specific power or feat, maybe they get a "double feint" which lets them do a second 1a maneuver to get an additional bonus on the attack as an exception to the general 'no stacking conditions' rule. Not sure how I feel about auto-crit as a finisher as the OP suggests, that seems quite powerful. But then again, if 'double feint' is just a Swash feat, that would let you use it with an existing finisher rather than creating a new finisher you must use 'instead of.'

[Claxon]

I don't have great familiarity with all the Swashbuckler feats, but I know they get at least something extra with feinting. I think there's also a rogue racket that get's some stuff. Maybe multiclass between the two?

Anyways, an autocrit would be too much. But if you combine feint with something else like trip/knockdown you opponent would have a -4 to their defense, making you 20% more likely to crit.

[Corabee Cori]

Claxon wrote:

I don't have great familiarity with all the Swashbuckler feats, but I know they get at least something extra with feinting.

Goading Feint. Instead of getting a -2 on the enemies AC, the enemy gets a -2 to their first attack against you. It becomes a defensive feint instead of an offensive feint.

Rogue actually has more ways of doing feint, but it is still the normal feint effect.

[Captain Morgan]

Yep, just use feint. Or Cause a Distraction, or hide, or one of the million and one feats that let you spend an action to inflict off guard.

[Claxon]

Corabee Cori wrote:

Claxon wrote:

I don't have great familiarity with all the Swashbuckler feats, but I know they get at least something extra with feinting.

Goading Feint. Instead of getting a -2 on the enemies AC, the enemy gets a -2 to their first attack against you. It becomes a defensive feint instead of an offensive feint.

Rogue actually has more ways of doing feint, but it is still the normal feint effect.

Yeah, I did some cursory research and saw the same. That rogue had more options for feinting.

It might make sense to make a rogue, though I think the Swashbuckler flourish attack might fulfill the "big attack" fantasy the the OP had in mind. But the rogue certainly seems to have more options with enhancing feint. And a multiclass between the two might be the best option.

[Captain Morgan]

Scout also has a feat to feint with stealth.