Continuing my fieldtest experience analysis level by level now in lvl 2.
Its still a speedrun playtest of Fall of Plaguestone because we already have all the things done and I want to test the Soldier too and because the soldier's playtest only goes up to level 5, we chose to play a low-level adventure.
I won't describe the full adventures here because its too much to be written and instead I will go directly to my impressions and observations.
This fieldtest will focus into soldier only. For other classes I will post my impressions in their respective forums.
Party composition
A human Animist (from War Of Immortals Playtest)
A half-orc Exemplar (from War Of Immortals Playtest)
A half-elf Soldier
A hobgoblin Alchemist
Build
Now in this level I get Fearsome Bulwark and choose Toughness as my general feat and improved Craft skill (because I'm creating my own high-tech weapons).
Impressions
Fearsome Bulwark is super fun! It's something that almost all martials want. The ability to Demoralize with your key attribute. That said I fell that Menacing Laughter was subpar. Its flavor is super fun but its mechanics only works with Supressed targets whats mean that you are in MAP condition making you to be benefited from it less than if you choose to Demoralize someone directly. Instead if this was able to be rolled before your Auto/Area Fire it could be more useful and still fun.
Outside this the things was the same from earlier levels. I used my Auto-Fire too little usually opting to just normal fire the rotolaser and when some enemy get closer Quick-Swap to my Elven Curve Blade to able to Suppress my enemies, specially bosses.
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When looking at Dirge of Doom, which is an automatic success on all targets within range (no check or proficiency required), often has double the duration and no Demoralize-esque lockout? At only 4 levels higher? Yeah, Menacing Laughter could use an upgrade. Though I personally would rather see the lockout go before anything else, even baseline Demoralize doesn't deserve it.
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When looking at Dirge of Doom, which is an automatic success on all targets within range (no check or proficiency required), often has double the duration and no Demoralize-esque lockout? At only 4 levels higher? Yeah, Menacing Laughter could use an upgrade. Though I personally would rather see the lockout go before anything else, even baseline Demoralize doesn't deserve it.
Dirge of Doom takes your Composition spell slot... which means that you're spending that feat to be able to cast Dirge instead of Inspire Courage. You're comparing very different things.
Dirge of Doom takes your Composition spell slot... which means that you're spending that feat to be able to cast Dirge instead of Inspire Courage. You're comparing very different things.When looking at Dirge of Doom, which is an automatic success on all targets within range (no check or proficiency required), often has double the duration and no Demoralize-esque lockout? At only 4 levels higher? Yeah, Menacing Laughter could use an upgrade. Though I personally would rather see the lockout go before anything else, even baseline Demoralize doesn't deserve it.
You are correct, even a level 6 Menacing Laughter wouldn't be as good as Dirge of Doom. I'd probably have to be level 8, measured from how Inspire Courage from the archetype is priced. But even with that in mind, it is still just a level 6 feat. So at some level, it is still comparable.
If nothing else, it tells us that we have some leeway that wasn't used. Or that Menacing Laughter just can't have the effect it needs to at that level, so it would make sense to increase its level.
Dirge of Doom takes your Composition spell slot... which means that you're spending that feat to be able to cast Dirge instead of Inspire Courage. You're comparing very different things.When looking at Dirge of Doom, which is an automatic success on all targets within range (no check or proficiency required), often has double the duration and no Demoralize-esque lockout? At only 4 levels higher? Yeah, Menacing Laughter could use an upgrade. Though I personally would rather see the lockout go before anything else, even baseline Demoralize doesn't deserve it.
You are correct, even a level 6 Menacing Laughter wouldn't be as good as Dirge of Doom. I'd probably have to be level 8, measured from how Inspire Courage from the archetype is priced. But even with that in mind, it is still just a level 6 feat. So at some level, it is still comparable.
If nothing else, it tells us that we have some leeway that wasn't used. Or that Menacing Laughter just can't have the effect it needs to at that level, so it would make sense to increase its level.
So... Just getting access to Inspire Courage takes a level 8 feat off of the Bard archetype (and in turn requires that you spend a level 2 dedication feat to get access to the archetype itself). Getting Dirge of Doom on its own requires a level 12 feat off of that archetype, and its unlocks are that same dedication feat and a minimum level 4 feat for Basic Muse's Whispers.
You're effectively comparing a class feat to a (poachable) class feature. Now, Dirge of Doom is very strong, but it's strong in the way that combos based on Flurry of Blows are strong. Either you're getting it as the class it's intended for, in which case it's built into the class budget, or you're getting it as some other class, in which case you're paying a serious price in archetype feats. It's not really even in the same territory as a class feat
I'm not saying that Menacing Laughter is necessarily good. I'm saying that Dirge of Doom is the wrong thing to compare it to.
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Now... as for whether it's good? Well, let's see.
- In order for it to do anything at all, you must have demoralized more than one enemy within thirty feet this turn... which is to say, more than one foe who is within 6 squares must have been targeted and then failed their save. It has the further disadvantage that your own attacks don't gain the benefit of that demoralization, whereas if you were using standard intimidation, they would. Oh, and anyone who you've previously tried to demoralize this battle is still quite immune. So... it's looking like the use case here is *really* pretty thin. I'll agree there.
Personally? I'd suggest maybe twisting it around a bit. limit it to one of the targets you suppressed, bring the feat up to level 8 or so, then make it a free action. You still only get one try per enemy per fight, you still can't use it on anyone unless you shot them and they're within 30 feet and they failed their save, and you still don't get the benefits on the suppressing attack itself, but it's a free action, so you might as well. If level 8 is to low for that, I'm pretty sure that level 12 wouldn't be.
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Now... as for whether it's good? Well, let's see.
- In order for it to do anything at all, you must have demoralized more than one enemy within thirty feet this turn... which is to say, more than one foe who is within 6 squares must have been targeted and then failed their save. It has the further disadvantage that your own attacks don't gain the benefit of that demoralization, whereas if you were using standard intimidation, they would. Oh, and anyone who you've previously tried to demoralize this battle is still quite immune. So... it's looking like the use case here is *really* pretty thin. I'll agree there.
It has another weird weakness, as you have to make the check against all viable targets, you don't get to choose. So after using this once or twice, everyone will be immune anyway. Even if it more reasonably allowed you to choose, your team usually can't focus more than one enemy at a time anyway. So the debuff on the second guy likely gets wasted regardless.
As far as possible solutions go, I'd follow you on making it (usually) single-target and upping the level a bit. But I think it is ok if ML stays an action. Having to make choices makes for more interesting gameplay. I'd prefer it having a stronger effect and not lock you out of regular Demoralize instead.
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As far as possible solutions go, I'd follow you on making it (usually) single-target and upping the level a bit. But I think it is ok if ML stays an action. Having to make choices makes for more interesting gameplay. I'd prefer it having a stronger effect and not lock you out of regular Demoralize instead.
Hmm...
What about immobilize? they're already suppressed, so their move has dropped. possibly this intimidate freezes them in place for a round?
At that point you're not worrying about locking yourself out of demoralize because its' a different effect entirely. Leaving the foe locked in place for a round is pretty strong, but they'd have to fail two saves in a row, and it would be reasonable to make it an incapacitation effect. The idea of temporarily locking down one or two out of a pack of charging Void Wolves so that you can focus on their friends without their interference for a round feels pretty satisfying for me.
That would be very cool and honestly would be fine at level 2 or 4.