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I've been thinking about the personal planes owned by the archmages in pathfinder Nex, Geb, Baba Yaga and I think I wouldn't actually want one too large as you lose track of what's happening. So I figured I'd ask how bit a plane other people would want.
House sized: A building sized plane either a couple of rooms or a small clearing.
Suburb sized: A few square miles in size.
Country sized: Something like the river kingdoms of a around a hundred to a few hundred square miles.
World sized: Earth world sized.
System sized: Roughly the size of our solar system.
Other:
Personally I go between suburb and country sized. A country gives you room to spread and have mines, mountains, lakes, etc however it would be easy to miss something happening elsewhere and you don't really need it. A suburb might feel cramped depending on what your doing with it but its easy to tell what's happening.
So assuming you have a horde of magical creations flavoured to suit (golems, humanoid seeming, unseen servants, robots or whatever you like) to take care of anything needed mining, tending animals or crops, maintaining buildings, etc. How big a personal plane would you want?
Like Rhode Island sized. If I have a personal demiplane, I'm a spellcaster. If I'm a spellcaster, I probably have lots of weird projects going on. I'll also need space to relax, and maybe a guest county just in case.
If I can have anything at all I would like an entire universe.
Not to be greedy, I don’t want control over the universe or any of the inhabitants that might randomly emerge with in it. I just like the idea of creating the conditions for a new, completely alien, species and giving them the space to find their own destiny.
If we are talking about a personal residence, I’m not sure. I kind of like the idea of a large inter dimensional hotel where all kinds of weird and wonderful guests stay often. But I would only need one apartment among many for my own personal use.
The bigger the demiplane, the lonelier a place it becomes.
The more creatures with which you populate your demiplane, the more control and security become factors.
The TARDIS from Doctor Who is a great representation of what I'd like to see in a demiplane: something that contains effectively infinite space, but which is practically only used in small bits at a time--that is, whichever room, chamber, auditorium, etc., happens to be needed by the character or the plot at that time.
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Is this is a demi-plane you create for yourself? Using create demiplane spell?
I'd probably be fine with a house sized to suburb sized demi-plane. A house would serve my needs, but a garden would be nice. Pool, hot tub, personal theater, and other nice things.
I don't think you can mine or extract resources from demi-planes that you make yourself.
No, no game intentions here was just reading over the personal residences of the top tier NPC spellcasters and wondering if I had that power what would I want e.g. Baba Yaga's hut has entire tribes wandering around it. Which got me wondering if other people could have their own personal plane how big would you want it to be?
If I can have anything at all I would like an entire universe.
Not to be greedy, I don’t want control over the universe or any of the inhabitants that might randomly emerge with in it. I just like the idea of creating the conditions for a new, completely alien, species and giving them the space to find their own destiny.
If we are talking about a personal residence, I’m not sure. I kind of like the idea of a large inter dimensional hotel where all kinds of weird and wonderful guests stay often. But I would only need one apartment among many for my own personal use.
Its your personal domain that is where you would retire to avoid people badgering you to do things. It could be a house if your happy with that and emerging to interact with the world at times or it could be an entire planet that you'll do something with.
The bigger the demiplane, the lonelier a place it becomes.
The more creatures with which you populate your demiplane, the more control and security become factors.
The TARDIS from Doctor Who is a great representation of what I'd like to see in a demiplane: something that contains effectively infinite space, but which is practically only used in small bits at a time--that is, whichever room, chamber, auditorium, etc., happens to be needed by the character or the plot at that time.
Which was my concern, a country lets me not feel mentally cramped and seperate a seaside town, a skiing town, a mining town, etc. However you start running the risk of missing things and you wouldn't use most of it really. If you bring in actual living beings to populate you have to deal with them not wanting to listen to you and do things their own way. So I keep cycling back to a suburb sized area of a say 2 square miles till I want say a mine or a lake to swim in and veer back up to country of say 300 square miles (including a surrounding ocean).
As I recall the type 40's were meant to be around the size of a large city even if we rarely see a fraction of it even in new who where he references things like dumping the sewage on deck 12.
A replica of Earth, but with no people. Would be nice to visit places like Yosemite without the hordes of tourists. Complete with cities though. Would be fun to wander an empty NYC, or Moscow.
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I'd probably always have multiple if at all possible, just because there are some times where I'd want to be able to write off the entire plane as a loss if an experiment goes wrong, and that's easier if I lose a laboratory and some constructs and simulacra than if I lose an entire nascent species that I've created/uplifted.
Similarly, there's just something cozy about a demiplane that's *just* a home away from home rather than the citadel of my power as I develop an entire economy to automate certain things so that they don't eat up my daily spellcasting or that of one of my direct minions.
Especially once different time traits can come into play.
One demiplane per customer :). Seriously this would be covered by levels like the abysss where you have level 1, 2, 3, 4, etc each can have its own rules and nature e.g. level 1 is a tropical island, level 2 is a snowy forest, level 3 is just water like the plane of water, level 4 is a laborartory, etc. They can be completely separate requiring plane shift to get to each one (if you need to write that level off for some reason) or have portals or other ways to travel between them permanently linking each level e.g. a particular rocky outcropping on the island is actually a portal you can open to pass through to the snowy forest.
An island like main land Hawaii would be my optimal size personally.
Not judging at all, but it's interesting the responses people are making about not wanting to populate the demiplane with people because you worry about not being able to rule them.
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I would have say... a suburb-sized demipane. It would primarily be a clear blue ocean, but it would have one medium-sized tropical island with white sand beaches. It would have a modest sized house to sleep in, and it would have an outdoor tiki bar, populated with a couple permanent unseen servants who can make me cocktails with little paper umbrellas in them and bring them out to me while I lounge under a large beach umbrella staring at the ocean and contemplating the mysteries of the other planes I'm not in just then.
If we're applying the more technical aspects from the create demiplane spells, then I would apply the Shape trait, so that the ocean loops in on itself, giving the illusion of being endless; and I would give it the Time trait, so that I could retreat here for an afternoon (or before noon or whenever) siesta with little to no time having passed when I return the the real world.
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Not judging at all, but it's interesting the responses people are making about not wanting to populate the demiplane with people because you worry about not being able to rule them.
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I would have say... a suburb-sized demipane. It would primarily be a clear blue ocean, but it would have one medium-sized tropical island with white sand beaches. It would have a modest sized house to sleep in, and it would have an outdoor tiki bar, populated with a couple permanent unseen servants who can make me cocktails with little paper umbrellas in them and bring them out to me while I lounge under a large beach umbrella staring at the ocean and contemplating the mysteries of the other planes I'm not in just then.
If we're applying the more technical aspects from the create demiplane spells, then I would apply the Shape trait, so that the ocean loops in on itself, giving the illusion of being endless; and I would give it the Time trait, so that I could retreat here for an afternoon (or before noon or whenever) siesta with little to no time having passed when I return the the real world.
Any of the planar traits are fair game if you want them for this topic. For me its less I don't want to rule people as I don't want people in it at all this is my place to get away from everyone hence why I cycle between the two. Country gives me room to get variety and play out fun little scenarios for my amusement but the bigger it gets the more I'd have a nagging worry in the back of my head of something like red dwarf's cats evolving in a part of it I don't visit often.
Main reason I feel I would want a country is the manufactoring of my own resources cars, computers, food, etc. The more you try to fit into a smaller place the more cramped it is. I'd probably if given the choice try to get something big enough I can have one decent sized town with all the resources and different areas (cbd, high class, manufacturing), farmland to support it, a mine with precious gems and metals and some woods and fields to wander around. Its just I know Tokyo is 15,000 square kilmoters and londons one and a half. So that's a fair amount of space just on the city. Say 35 square kilomters, the city in the center, mine to the south, a lake near hte city and moutains on 3 sides with an ocean on the fourth.
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If we apply the technical aspects, I would make a permanent Mage's Magnificent Mansion. It comes with its servants, food production, and climate control.
The different versions of Create Demiplane would require a lot of castings of it and of Permanence to get something with a decent size without half of the features.
The only advantage of Create Demiplane is that the Greater version allows you to add planar traits.
Managing people requires work. If I were to create my own demiplane as a leisure place, having to manage people wouldn't be one of my goals.
A work demiplane would be another matter.
My idea of a private demiplane is of a place to rest, study, and think.
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If we apply the technical aspects, I would make a permanent Mage's Magnificent Mansion. It comes with its servants, food production, and climate control.
The different versions of Create Demiplane would require a lot of castings of it and of Permanence to get something with a decent size without half of the features.
The only advantage of Create Demiplane is that the Greater version allows you to add planar traits.Managing people requires work. If I were to create my own demiplane as a leisure place, having to manage people wouldn't be one of my goals.
A work demiplane would be another matter.
My idea of a private demiplane is of a place to rest, study, and think.
Not the technical aspects, the planar traits. Different thing, as I said in my first post this is explicitly not by the game rules for demiplanes just like Nex crashing a shard of his plane into a city isn't something a player can do. For example my saying you have enough magical constructs themed as you like to take care of any maintainenance and up keep even if you have as one poster said an entire universe in their plane. I'm just saying you can apply planar traits if you want self contained, bountiful, planar dominant, permanent connection to the material plane etc.
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I'm from Arkansas, so I have to use official southern terms of measurement. I would like my demi-plane to run from here to that way somewhere over yonder and a pretty fair piece (fer piece) back the other way.
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I'm from Arkansas, so I have to use official southern terms of measurement. I would like my demi-plane to run from here to that way somewhere over yonder and a pretty fair piece (fer piece) back the other way.
Your the kind of person who's directions go "Drive down this road to where the old mill used to be then run right, keep going to were the new mall will be built in a few years, turn left there and keep going to where old man johnson had that nasty fall a few years back and keep your eyes open for the overgrown road then take that shortcut over the abandoned mine and you'll be in town before you know it.". Followed two hours later by "No, no you went left at the fork in the woods not right didn't you? I told you keep going OVER the abandoned mine left takes you completely the wrong direction. Didn't you notice when you reached that low area where we had those nasty floods when I was young." aren't you?
How big would it need to be to have a functioning ecosystem of temperate woodlands/meadows where the apex predators were two domestic cats? That plus an acre or so for a cottage, garden and chicken run.
I'm from Arkansas, so I have to use official southern terms of measurement. I would like my demi-plane to run from here to that way somewhere over yonder and a pretty fair piece (fer piece) back the other way.Your the kind of person who's directions go "Drive down this road to where the old mill used to be then run right, keep going to were the new mall will be built in a few years, turn left there and keep going to where old man johnson had that nasty fall a few years back and keep your eyes open for the overgrown road then take that shortcut over the abandoned mine and you'll be in town before you know it.". Followed two hours later by "No, no you went left at the fork in the woods not right didn't you? I told you keep going OVER the abandoned mine left takes you completely the wrong direction. Didn't you notice when you reached that low area where we had those nasty floods when I was young." aren't you?
LOL Yes. I haven't lived out in the country in 30 years, though, yet still don't know the names to most of the streets in the city where I live. I still use the "landmarks" style of directions...LOL
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So after a bit of digging Monaco's a few sqaure kilomters so I think my main layer would be around 7.54 square kilometers give or take with some smaller layers for specific projects. I don't need an entire detroit style city afterall just a few city blocks with a rundown feel and an underground punk dance club for that cyberpunk feel for example.
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It seems to me that an extra layer on a demiplane is pretty much the same thing as a demiplane in the first place and I would be inclined to allow the same means of creation.Having multiple planar layers to a demiplane would be a huge game changer, I think. Some would definitely be on the smaller side while others would still be sizeable but probably never on the level of continental or making my own world.
And there would definitely be some with hidden, semi-obtuse entry conditions that I'd make purely as puzzles or to reward exploration or just be a kooky old wizard.
Your quite right I'm sure I remember layers being a planar trait e.g. abyss or elysium but when I looked at them it isn't there. Oh well I allowed it for this topic so we'll let it stand for this thread to avoid moving goalposts.
For those replying like I said this is not per the create demiplane or geneisis spells this is apply any of the planar traits you like in e.g. erratic time or static structure plus layers. Just be sure to say what size you want and why those traits would have you take that choice.
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Big enough to contain a library with every book ever written.
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Big enough to contain a library with every book ever written.Nah, too much work gathering such a library. Make a magical book that can be turned into any book you name.
Or make it self updating. You'd probably want to tie it to a specific plane/world or finding things would be tricky "No, No this is from the universe of bad fanfiction I want the copy of this book from universe 301 realities over from there."
I can see the value though e.g. tie it to our world and have a part of the plane contain a hard drive the size of a planet updating with a copy of every book, film, tv series, fanfic, youtube creation, etc so you can pull it up on a computer/magic crystal/other item and your library with the main books you enjoy rereading or that have historical/cultural/personal significance. Could even use magic to make it create a variant where you get a film with those characters (and actors or a real life version of the characters) playing out events as if one thing were changed. For example "How would Harry Potter be different if he befriended Draco" then you get a film series with the events playing out for you from that point as if nothing else in the world changed except as a result of it.
Wouldn't include copies of artifacts or magically protected things. Probably not even magical things like a blessed book.
Big enough to contain a library with every book ever written.Nah, too much work gathering such a library. Make a magical book that can be turned into any book you name.
I (briefly) worked in a library which contained every book published in the Britsh Isles since 1662. It had a *lot* of underground storage.
I fall into the manor, plantation, or palace up to suburb size. I want to be able to throw something and not hit things or ride a horse or carriage around at least.
Same
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Or make it self updating. You'd probably want to tie it to a specific plane/world or finding things would be tricky "No, No this is from the universe of bad fanfiction I want the copy of this book from universe 301 realities over from there."Big enough to contain a library with every book ever written.Nah, too much work gathering such a library. Make a magical book that can be turned into any book you name.I wasn't thinking of updating per se, rather an item that you can command to turn into any book you can name or uniquely identify. ("Change to the next book in this series". "Change to the next book written by this author." etc)
It seems amazing that some wizard hasn't come up with such an item to make it easier to search for knowledge. And how could a lich not make one??
Wouldn't include copies of artifacts or magically protected things. Probably not even magical things like a blessed book.Blessed book, sure--but it would be ordinary writing, you would find out what spells were in the book but couldn't learn them.
Probably because generally by the time you're powerful enough to make such a book you're only interested in the books that are protected againt you duplicating them.