So do we know what they'll be doing regarding spontaneous spellcasters in the upcoming edition?
In Starfinder 1E (and P1E, 3rd, 3.5, and 5E), a spontaneous spellcaster can cast any spell he knows, as long as he has a spell slot of at least that spell's level. Usually this would mean, say, a first-level spell slot spent for a first-level spell, but even if, for whatever reason, he were out of first-level spell slots but still had higher level slots available, he could use those slots to power his lower level spell. It might be slightly inefficient, but oh well, no big deal.
But in P2E, a spontaneous spellcaster in that same situation (needs to use a low-level (or I guess, low-rank) spell, knows said spell (but not as a signature spell), doesn't have spell slots of that spell's rank but does have higher rank slots available) is just SoL.
So what do we think will be happening to spontaneous spellcasters in Starfinder 2E? Do they become less spontaneous too? Do they keep the freedom to power spells with any spell slot of at least that spell's rank (and Starfinder will just be incompatible with P2E in that specific regard)? Or is this a non-issue because the Remaster gave spontaneous spellcasters the freedom to power their spells with whatever slots met the minimum criteria that they used to enjoy?
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But in P2E, a spontaneous spellcaster in that same situation (needs to use a low-level (or I guess, low-rank) spell, knows said spell (but not as a signature spell), doesn't have spell slots of that spell's rank but does have higher rank slots available) is just SoL.
That seems like a really edge case situation. I'm not sure that I have ever heard of Spontaneous spellcaster players complaining about that being something that they commonly run into.
I have heard the argument that you could cast an unheightened lower level spell using a higher level spell slot to power it (but with no heightening it would cast for the lower level spell effect still). I'm not sure if that is a common ruling or if it even comes up often enough to be worth ruling on.
But if the SF2 rules are going to be compatible with the PF2 core, then I don't think there is going to be significant changes to spontaneous spellcasting.
I suppose it is possible that Arcanist style casting classes are going to be introduced into SF2 before it gets brought into PF2. But it seems like an odd thing to have on initial release.
Personally when I run my games I allow players to cast low level spells using a higher level slot, not as an upcast but as burning a higher level spell just like in other editions. I once had a GM do the same for me (I love playing sorc / oracle) when I needed to cast heal, but I only had it in my 2nd level and hadn't at the time made it a signature. At that point I realized it did allow spellcasters more versatility, but it's also something that rarely ever comes up.
So, the playtest for the Animist says that your Apparition spells will all be considered Signature spells. That's discouraging to say the least, as it makes an outright distinction between their spontaneous spellcasting and regular mortal spontaneous spellcasting, implying that the Remaster will leave spontaneous spellcasters with their existing "only some spells can use whatever spell slots you have, rather than only their specific rank".
Granted, there's still room for the Remaster to allow regular mortal spontaneous spellcasters to trade down higher rank slots for lower rank slots (thus letting you still cast lower rank spells with slots higher than their specific rank but without being Heightened). But it's looking more likely that Starfinder 2E will either be letting their spontaneous spellcasters be as fully spontaneous as before (and that will just be a difference between P2E and S2E), or that spontaneous spellcasters in Starfinder will be losing some of their flexibility.
So, the playtest for the Animist says that your Apparition spells will all be considered Signature spells.
Summoner does the same thing - though for different reasons.
For Summoner it is because they have a very small Repertoire and only high level spell slots to cast them with. It is likely that they have spells of a rank that is too low for them to cast with any of their spell slots. So they need to be able to heighten those spells in Repertoire automatically.
For Animist it is because their spell choice for Apparition casting is fixed. They aren't allowed to learn the spell at a higher level. Only being able to cast Safe Passage that you got from 'Custodian of Groves and Gardens' at 3rd rank power is probably fine. Only being able to cast Fireball that you got from 'Steward of Stone and Fire' at 3rd rank power is going to feel like a wasted spell by the time you are level 12.
What that means for Starfinder classes, I am not going to speculate too much on.
But in P2E, a spontaneous spellcaster in that same situation (needs to use a low-level (or I guess, low-rank) spell, knows said spell (but not as a signature spell), doesn't have spell slots of that spell's rank but does have higher rank slots available) is just SoL.This is a misunderstanding of the spell slot rules. You can always use a higher level slot to cast a lower level spell, you just can't heighten that spell unless you know it at the correct level or it's a signature spell.
I can cast a fireball with a 5th level spell slot if I have no 3rd level slots left, it's just going to deal the base 6d6 damage, not the 10d6 it would deal if I had heightened it to 5th level.
Or is this a non-issue because the Remaster gave spontaneous spellcasters the freedom to power their spells with whatever slots met the minimum criteria that they used to enjoy?This doesn't come from the remaster, it's how the rules have always worked.
Can you quote where they say exactly that? And I mean both "exactly" and "unambiguously", because I know we've asked for clarification on this exact issue (spelling out exactly where the language in previous editions allowed for "any spell cast with any spell slot of at least that spell's level" and why P2E's language doesn't lead to the same conclusion) almost since P2E started and we've gotten bupkiss all this time.
Can you quote where they say exactly that? And I mean both "exactly" and "unambiguously", because I know we've asked for clarification on this exact issue (spelling out exactly where the language in previous editions allowed for "any spell cast with any spell slot of at least that spell's level" and why P2E's language doesn't lead to the same conclusion) almost since P2E started and we've gotten bupkiss all this time.But in P2E, a spontaneous spellcaster in that same situation (needs to use a low-level (or I guess, low-rank) spell, knows said spell (but not as a signature spell), doesn't have spell slots of that spell's rank but does have higher rank slots available) is just SoL.This is a misunderstanding of the spell slot rules. You can always use a higher level slot to cast a lower level spell, you just can't heighten that spell unless you know it at the correct level or it's a signature spell.
I can cast a fireball with a 5th level spell slot if I have no 3rd level slots left, it's just going to deal the base 6d6 damage, not the 10d6 it would deal if I had heightened it to 5th level.
Or is this a non-issue because the Remaster gave spontaneous spellcasters the freedom to power their spells with whatever slots met the minimum criteria that they used to enjoy?This doesn't come from the remaster, it's how the rules have always worked.
I don't have the new Core books and obviously we're out of luck with AoN until later this month, but I believe the remaster explicitly clarified this (see this thread). Someone can probably back it up with page numbers but the Rules Lawyer and SwingRipper are pretty reputable at least.
EDIT: Didn't see the dates at first so if this has already been settled in the eyes of those involved then great, but I see this discussion still happening up to this day in various places for various reasons so I figured I'd keep it up just in case.
Specifically, the rules regarding heightening spontaneous spells that was added in Player Core that was not in the Core Rulebook is:
As a spontaneous caster, you can also choose to cast
a lower-rank spell using a higher-rank spell slot without
heightening it or knowing it at a higher rank. This casts
the spell at the rank you know the spell, not the rank of
the higher slot. The spell doesn’t have any heightened
effects, so it’s usually not a very efficient use of your magic
outside of highly specific circumstances.
For a full text comparison:
If you’re a spontaneous spellcaster, you must know a spell at the specific level that you want to cast it in order to heighten it. You can add a spell to your spell repertoire at more than a single level so that you have more options when casting it. For example, if you added fireball to your repertoire as a 3rd-level spell and again as a 5th-level spell, you could cast it as a 3rd-level or a 5th-level spell; however, you couldn’t cast it as a 4th-level spell.
Many spontaneous spellcasting classes provide abilities like the signature spells class feature, which allows you to cast a limited number of spells as heightened versions even if you know the spell at only a single level.
If you’re a spontaneous spellcaster, you must know
a spell at the specific rank that you want to cast it in
order to heighten it. You can add a spell to your spell
repertoire at more than a single rank so that you have
more options when casting it. For example, if you added
fireball to your repertoire as a 3rd-rank spell and again
as a 5th-rank spell, you could cast it as a 3rd-rank or
a 5th-rank spell; however, you couldn’t cast it as a
4th-rank spell.
Many spontaneous spellcasting classes provide abilities
like the signature spells class feature, which allows you
to cast a limited number of spells as heightened versions
even if you know the spell at only a single rank.
As a spontaneous caster, you can also choose to cast
a lower-rank spell using a higher-rank spell slot without
heightening it or knowing it at a higher rank. This casts
the spell at the rank you know the spell, not the rank of
the higher slot. The spell doesn’t have any heightened
effects, so it’s usually not a very efficient use of your magic
outside of highly specific circumstances. For instance, if
your party was having trouble with an invisible enemy,
and you had revealing light in your repertoire but had
already spent all of your 2nd-rank spell slots, it might be
worth it to use a 3rd-rank spell slot to cast the spell, even
though it’d have no heightened benefit.