Hello fellow humans with the computer-bound acquired template! I'm preparing to run Curse of the Crimson Throne, but I have a history of underestimating certain difficulties, most evidently Hetuath of Fires Of Creation, and I was wondering if people who've GMed or played this ap knew anything to watch out for. I'm thinking mostly in the vein of encounters that are more difficult than they first appear, but any tips will be appreciated. If it helps, it looks like the party is gonna be a Witch, a Spiritualist, a Slayer, and an Oracle. Another thing of relevance is that I'm using both the original and updated versions of the AP, and plan do do a little bit of mix-and-match.
Thanks ya'll
In general my advice is such like 'Know the published material well' and the opposite of that coin, 'Let your players play the game they want without trying to restrict them to the published word -- while simultaneously reminding in Metagame that the greatness of the game is in the published text and to please be openminded as players to allow their PCs to go with the game.'. It's a balance.
For specifics, go to the Forum on The Boards here where a gazillion-and-one Threads discuss the highs and lows of CotCT. Yes, they're older and mostly inactive, but there's still SOOO much there to help you. And then there are PbP Campaigns you can browse.
For me, the chase scene for Trinia Sabor was a complete failure. Chases are tricky. .... And another one, I'm in the camp of gamers that believe the whole entire volume four, "A History of Ashes" by Michael Kortes is only usable for kindling: Burn it. It is garbage for play. (There's quite a few of us in this camp, though we're a minority.)
That surprises me somewhat, it was one of my favorites reading through. Not super interested in an internet argument, but I am curious about your objection. If you could elaborate a little, that'd be nice. Thanks for linking the threads by the way.
Well, rule #1 would be to ignore me when it conflicts with your gut feeling. If you love "A Hestory of Ashes" then it will likely be very awesome for your game! Use it -- absolutely. There are plenty of groups who feel it was good for their game. (Like I said, 'we' who don't like it are a minority.) I also was not a big fan of the 'Go-rescue-Shoanti-Skull-Man's-Son/Corpse-from-Derro' chapter early in the campaign, but it can be done really well.
I guess the crux, for our feeling, is that it just feels out of place. Korvosa, Korvosa, Korvosa -- then the desert -- and Korvosa, Korvosa, Korvosa. .... Incidentally, there's also a group of gamers who don't like volume 5, "Skeletons of Scarwall" by Greg Vaughan for similar reasons. But for me, I think it is among the top three or four Dungeon-Crawls in all of Paizo's Pathfinder adventures, and even one of the best d20-era dungeon crawls. I love it. .... So, you gotta do you!
The only encounters that can be wildly out of proportion for what the party can handle at those points is likely Ramoska Arkiminos (final dungeon of book 2) but only really in the original version, remaster is fine, and the Arkonas in book 3, because you aren't really meant to fight them.
Of course, the entire dungeon of book 2 can be hairy if your party tries to handle it all in one go (or even it and the upstairs all in one go), and then in book 4, if they do a poor job of planning for Cindermaw, you can wind up sacrificing a PC to the worm god. That said, I would call those more worthy of a PK if the party plays that sloppily as opposed to a fight that is just too hard because you aren't supposed to fight it.
I ran my group through it with the party being: Unchained Rogue, Unchained Barbarian, Fighter (that used a bow), and a Witch. It was 20 point buy, and they all did quite well throughout most of it.
The end boss in book 2 was a bit touch-and-go, they tried to fight Arkminos earlier in that book but that was on them. They started attacking the Arkonas but due to bad tactics and some PCs not fully convinced they should be fighting either of them they had to withdraw from that. Nothing else springs to mind though.
For my two coppers, book 4 worked really well for our group but one of the PCs was shoanti so that helped it along some. (Even if they weren't, I still think the group would've enjoyed it.)
Because DM Ray mentioned the chase against Trinia Sabor, my group liked it but mostly because one PC failed against hideous laughter so they were frequently cracking jokes about that throughout the campaign. (Trinia managed to escape)
Scarwall is EASILY the favourite dungeon my group has done throughout all of the campaigns I've run for them. (A lot of people on here seem to not like it though, so YMMV)
One thing to watch for is that the Player's Guide (Collected Edition one found on THIS BLOG POST) hypes up Lamm a lot and then he's killed nearly right away... My players wanted him to matter more and were at least a little disappointed. Personally, I liked him being the big, bad scary monsters to children who isn't actually all that threatening in real life, but that's definately something to watch for too. It could leave a bad taste in some players' mouths.
My group took him prisoner; he eventually escaped Deathhead Vault through tunnels that are mentioned later on in "Mantis and Maiden" (Chapter 4, Part 3), and showed up as the Emperor of Old Korvosa instead of Pilts Swastel.
I think it works more for Gaedren if you hype him up in the regard that he's someone the party is finally given a chance at revenge on than as some "larger than life" crime lord which sometimes the player's guide got carried away doing. Even then, you can realize and emphasize to a player that a man in his prime when you were 10 is long in decline by the time you're 25.
He is meant to be the universal motivator for why you care about making the city better, which then easily carries on into the riots of book 1 and everything else to follow.
The following advice is more general than how-to-avoid-a-TPK-related ...
I wanted to have certain NPCs stand out a bit more in the group's collective memory before said NPCs become immediately relevant to them. The CotCT RE does that already with both Vencarlo Orisini (introduced in Book 1, asks a favour of the party in Book 2, goes MIA in Book 3) and Amin Jalento (introduced in Book 1, provides helpful information in Book 3).
However, unless a PC is particularly interested in the Sable Company, Marcus Endrin is a cipher to the group. It's a good idea to introduce him to the party earlier than the report of his messy "death" at the start of Book 3. For example, when I ran Book 2, on one of the party's many visits to Kroft they overheard the tail end of an argument between Kroft and Endrin. He was venting about Ileosa while Kroft was desperately advising him not to antagonise the Queen. Endrin then stormed off from her office and Kroft spoke with the party about their current concerns.
Also, try as much as possible to get the players to make PCs who are native Korvosans, have social connections with local NPCs (who don't have to be relevant to the AP), and are invested in keeping their city alive/healthy/free from tyranny. I tried to stress this with my players, but evidently not strongly enough; I got 3 local orphans and a dwarf from Five Kings Mountains. :(
I tried to stress this with my players as well. I've got four native Korvosans, but they're all half orcs. I'm considering having some sort of faction in the city that's pro half orc rights to try and justify why all the human NPCs are talking to them semi-normally.
I just ran a CotCT RE encounter yesterday evening, one which could have become a total party wipe/TPW. (I tend to reserve "TPK" to situations where the GM is actively gunning for the group, as opposed to just running the encounter as written.) I ran it RAW, plus my dice were mostly hot and the players' dice were mostly not. Near the end of that combat, I actively fudged two hits into misses and two crits into regular hits.
The encounter was in Book 3, when the party had reached the caverns underneath Arkona Palace. Specifically, it was an encounter with four creatures which surrounded the party. Unfortunately, these foes proved very difficult for my players' characters in particular.
Part of the reason is that the party has only one real front-liner, and even he's got fewer hit points than a regular front-liner. (He's a dwarven Druid with the goliath archetype [PC: Giant Hunter's Handbook], plus one level of Barbarian with the Armoured Hulk archtype [UC] and dwarven stoneplate armour.) The rest of the party consists of spellcasters: a halfling Bard, a halfling Witch, and an armoured spellcaster in the form of a half-orc Cleric of Sarenrae (with one level of Sorcerer ... One guess as to which bloodline). We use 15-point builds.
At this point, I'm going to see if I can persuade at least one of them to take the Leadership feat and gain a henchperson who is front-line worthy. They've met enough named NPCs who are potential front-liners: Grau Soldado, Verik Vancaskerkin, Amin Jalento, plus a paladin of Sarenrae with the Grey/Holy Light Warrior archetypes (UI and APG respectively) made by myself and named Linea Frontallix (just to be obvious). There's also Trinia Sabor, Ruan Mirukova, and Ishani Dhatri, but this group doesn't need any more spellcasters.
Like I said, this particular encounter was difficult for my particular players' character. YMMV when it comes to your own group's PCs.
Hello everyone. I'm runnning CotCT and we are in book 1. I'm back to mastering after some years of inactivity (as gm, not player).
The main diffucult I have is making the city feel alive. I'm struggling to bring out the danger of the streets, to make the trip from point A to point B a way to feel and to know the city. My last session has been underwhelming, it was just encounter 1, encounter 2, congratualation you're arrived.
Can you have some tips? Thak you very much
Hello everyone. I'm runnning CotCT and we are in book 1. I'm back to mastering after some years of inactivity (as gm, not player).
The main diffucult I have is making the city feel alive. I'm struggling to bring out the danger of the streets, to make the trip from point A to point B a way to feel and to know the city. My last session has been underwhelming, it was just encounter 1, encounter 2, congratualation you're arrived.
Can you have some tips? Thak you very much
We could probably help more if you tell us what your group consists of, how they are connected to Korvosa (are they all Gaedren's orphans?), etc.
Beyond that, a couple of things off the top of my head.
1) Try working in your players backgrounds into the campaign, give them ties to some of the NPCs, etc. For example, maybe one of them was caught trying to steal from Orsini's manor but Vencarlo let him go. Meeting up with him later and finding out he's Batman (basicaLLy) will be more impactful. Maybe Kroft is actively looking for one of them for a previous crime. Have her show up from time to time, then have the PC or even PCs escape down an alley or sewer, etc.
Pick a few NPCs to focus on as recurring characters. Introduce them early if possible for some foreshadowing in later volumes, etc. Relationships with NPCs helps bring the city alive and helps them care more about the setting overall.
Even villains work here. You can have someone like Vreeg (Book 1) spotted beforehand from a PCs inn window dragging off someone dead (maybe even a former friend from the Lamms) into an ally. Later when they encounter Vreeg, they'll see his Zombie henchman as the same dead body he dragged off.
As another example, one of the Vampire spawn (Book 2) is spotted feeding on a nearby rooftop, as he feeds he stares at the PC(s) before disappearing into the night. Thereafter from time to time when a PC looks up towards the rooftops, or through a window, or down an alley, that Vampire spawn is there.... watching them.
All this is built over time but can make the sessions much more memorable over just being escaped orphans going from encounter to encounter.
I will second the above, that working in character backstories to have the elements and connections to said dangerous parts of the city should help sell it and keep it in their minds, but it may be past that point if you've already started.
That said, Gaedren is a very good example what lurks in many dregs of the city, even so close to Citadel Volshyenek (the guard HQ). I often have it played up that Kroft knew about the orphans there all along but couldn't/wouldn't risk going in for the potential collateral damage the orphans could become.
The riots beyond that are also a good chance to play up the hazard of the streets, even just by pointing out on a map the detours they have to take, and how even with the detours how they still run into the incidental encounters like the imp attack, otyough, street thugs, etc.