Counterspell through Scrying?


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I looked around a bit and, predictably, most existing threads dealt with countering the scrying itself.

What I want to ask folks about is whether a wizard using scrying can counterspell a spell or magical effect that he can see through the scrying sensor.

1) No range is indicated for the Counterspell feats, or for the Counteracting section.

2) The Counterspell feat says, laconically, "When a foe Casts a Spell and you can see its manifestations, you can use your own magic to counter it."

3) The Scrying spell says, "You magically spy on a creature of your choice." One can only infer that "spy on" is the equivalent of "seeing" the target, its spellcasting and spellcasting manifestations.

So the question is, if you're scrying on a guy, and he casts a spell, can you attempt to counteract his spell, assuming you satisfy all other relevant criteria for counterspells?

(My gut feeling is that this shouldn't be able to work, but I was unable to find any rule reference to show that my gut feeling was right.)


Well a tually casting a spell requires line of effect. Probably isn't written into the rules, but having that apply to counter spelling as well makes sense.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Captain, I tend to agree with you, but since Counterspell just talks about your ability to "see its manifestations" I'm having a hard time coming up with a solid rule requiring line of effect.

Is it as simple as the first line of the Line of Effect section?

"When creating an effect, you usually need an unblocked path to the target of a spell, the origin point of an effect’s area, or the place where you create something with a spell or other ability."


Counterspell is still an ability creating an effect, yes.

So you need line of effect for it. Scry only provides line of sight, but not of effect.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Yes, it really is as simple as "requires line of effect" is the default for everything. Effects that don't require it need to say so, instead of the other way around. And nothing about counterspell, mechanically or narratively, even hints that there might be a reason for it to be exempt.


Scrying itself says that the image is insufficient for use with Teleport. If i can't teleport after seeing the location through the scry, I think it is a stretch to say I have line of affect to allow for counterspelling.

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