Flammable Fumes has no save?

[Wheldrake]

The Flammable Fumes spell https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=913
lists no saving throw at all.

Is both the poison damage and the explosive damage really without a save? Could it be an oversight?

I'd expect a fort save for the poison and a reflex save for the explosion.

[breithauptclan]

Yeah, I would expect it to have some saving throw information.

If it is intended to not have any save allowed, it should probably say that since not having a save is rather strange.

[Megistone]

I can see the poison damage being no-save, since it's pretty low for a level 5 spell. The explosion, though, should allow for a basic reflex save IMO.

[Cordell Kintner]

I would have the poison be a Basic Fort save, as it's similar to other "Start turn in the area" effects like a Nightmare's smoke aura, or like a much weaker version of Cloudkill.

The explosion should 100% be a Basic Reflex save.

[Kelseus]

You get a Perception check to see the cloud and the spell states it is obvious when you enter.

I think there is no save because the opponent has to stay in an obviously hazardous location for a whole round before being damaged and it requires someone to actually light the gas. Your save is using an action to move out of the gas.

It's objectively worse than 5th level Fireball (10d6), instant damage instead of waiting a whole round. And it is worse than Cone of Cold (12d6).

[Errenor]

Kelseus wrote:

You get a Perception check to see the cloud and the spell states it is obvious when you enter.

I think there is no save because the opponent has to stay in an obviously hazardous location for a whole round before being damaged and it requires someone to actually light the gas. Your save is using an action to move out of the gas.

It's objectively worse than 5th level Fireball (10d6), instant damage instead of waiting a whole round. And it is worse than Cone of Cold (12d6).

Yes, it's completely ok as written, even if unconventional.

[Megistone]

As I said, I don't mind the automatic 2d6, while the added 10d6 are a good bit of damage if someone, say, enters the cloud with their last action and thus remains vulnerable to the explosion.
But it could be argued that the Perception check acts as a sort of save. Yeah, probably not an error after all, just something that plays differently and is rather strong in the right circumstances.

[StarlingSweeter]

Wall of fire also does not have any save attached to its damage so Flammable Fumes isnt the only one. Im also in the party of "no save".

[shroudb]

yeah, doesn't seem out of line if compared to Wall of fire.

both are 3action casts

a 5th level wall of fire would be 5d6 no save per round
this is 2d6 but you can spend some extra effort/actions to explode it for a burst of 10d6

even without considering that (damage wise) inherently higher level spells are suppossed to have the advantage over heightened lower level spells, those seem comparable.

since that requires an extra round for it to explode it first, 2 rounds in this would be 12d6, while 2 rounds in wall of fire would be 10d6, and wall of fire doesn't end after that while the cloud ends when you explode it.

cloud's area is "better" imo but wall also gives concealment.

so overall, pretty ok for a 3 action cast but nothing extreme.