I am creating a level 7 character because my hero just died. Starting wealth indicates 23,500 gold. Am I allowed to purchase a Belt of giant strength +4 at 16,000 gold? Is it too strong at this level or is it normal to have an item of the this strength at this point in the game?
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That's fine by the rules, but the Core Rulebook suggests a more balanced approach.
From the Core Rulebook (page 400):
It's more than I'd spend on one item - with the 12 000 saved by going to a +2 belt you could get a lot of smaller bonus items - but unless your GM says otherwise it's legal. There are some guidelines which suggest 25% on weapons, etc., but they're just guidelines.
Only way I could see it as making sense would be on a Kinetic Knight (who throws off the WBL curve by not using a weapon), which would leave you 32% of your wealth for armor, a shield. Even then it's a bit of a stretch.
This is for a monk character
for a monk. i would recommend a magic gauntlet to cheaply enhance your unarmed strikes, gauntlets count as unarmed strikes for all intents and purposes except that they allow non monks to deal lethal damage without penalty.
a gauntlet might be a metal glove, but it is still a glove.
a +1 Gauntlet, +2 Belt of Giant Strength, +2 Cloak of resistance, +1 ring of protection, +1 amulet of natural armor, 4 wands of cure light wounds for the party cleric to heal you with, bracers of armor +1, a handy haversack, whatever mundane supplies you need, like a cart and some donkeys, or food, and try to leave some pocket change for food, inn stays and the like, while converting the bulk of your gold excess to diamonds.
for a monk. i would recommend a magic gauntlet to cheaply enhance your unarmed strikes, gauntlets count as unarmed strikes for all intents and purposes except that they allow non monks to deal lethal damage without penalty.
a gauntlet might be a metal glove, but it is still a glove.
a +1 Gauntlet, +2 Belt of Giant Strength, +2 Cloak of resistance, +1 ring of protection, +1 amulet of natural armor, 4 wands of cure light wounds for the party cleric to heal you with, bracers of armor +1, a handy haversack, whatever mundane supplies you need, like a cart and some donkeys, or food, and try to leave some pocket change for food, inn stays and the like, while converting the bulk of your gold excess to diamonds.
gauntlets don't do anything with unarmed strikes other than making them lethal A gauntlet attack isn't an Unarmed strike, though it is an unarmed attack.
The rules say you can't have an item worth more than half WBL, so unless you can craft it, you can't start with it.
More precisely the rules say (unless there's another one I missed):
As a general rule, PCs should not own any magic item worth more than half their total character wealth, so make sure to check before awarding expensive magic items.
So it's referred to as a rule, but phrased in such a way as to make it sound more like a guideline for adventure creation ('should not' instead of 'must not').
It's pretty much 'ask your GM' territory.
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Also the gauntlet has it's own damage die which monk doesn't increase and the lack of monk quality makes it impossible to use for flurry
Brass knuckles would be a better than gauntlets since a monk can use their monk unarmed damage instead. See "Brass knuckles" from the PRD.
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It says you 'should', not 'can't'. That is a very distinct difference. It's entirely on the DM to give permission for you to do that, but is otherwise entirely legal.
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Also the gauntlet has it's own damage die which monk doesn't increase and the lack of monk quality makes it impossible to use for flurryBrass knuckles would be a better than gauntlets since a monk can use their monk unarmed damage instead. See "Brass knuckles" from the PRD.
That was changed in Ultimate Equipment they removed the last part of it "These weapons fit snugly around the knuckles and allow you to deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike. You may hold, but not wield, a weapon or other object in a hand wearing brass knuckles. You may cast a spell with a somatic component while wearing brass knuckles if you make a successful concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell you're casting). Monks are proficient with brass knuckles. Brass knuckles can't be disarmed." as the newest source those are the rules now as shown in this SKR post
Even if you could you would be better off purchasing a +2 belt and a magic weapon. If you are playing a monk then get an amulet of mighty fists. A +2 belt and a +1 amulet cost 8000 gp and give you the same bonus to hit and damage. Also consider that a belt does not make your attacks count as magical so they don’t overcome DR.
As a GM I'd allow it. *smiles*
A PC with a +4 belt is less dangerous than a PC with a +2 belt and 12K worth of miscellaneous stuff and consumables like potions...
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I still read it as a rule. You don't. Whatever.
I don't read it as a rule either.
I would focus on first obtaining the big items you need. You will end with a more survivable character and the character will also be more efficient. A +2 belt and a +1 magic weapon gives the same return as a +4 Belt of Str since most monks do not get 1.5 str (unless they build for it of course).
Here is my recommendations:
+2 belt
+1 magic weapon or Amulet of mighty fists
Cloak of Resistance +2
Ring of Deflection +1
Headband of Wisdom +2 (For a monk it is AC, Ki Pool, Will saves)
Handy Haversack
Cracked Dusty Ioun Stone
Ioun Torch (if no Dark vision)
Armband of the Brawler (If grappling build)
Deliquescent Gloves
Potions- (Fly, Mage armor, Enlarge Person, Displacement, Heroism)
If the party has someone who can use a wand of Mage armor then a Wand of Mage armor and Cure light wounds.
I still read it as a rule. You don't. Whatever.I don't read it as a rule either.
The way it's written it's no different than when parents tell their grown children what they should do. It's every bit as binding.
The way it's written it's no different than when parents tell their grown children what they should do. It's every bit as binding.I still read it as a rule. You don't. Whatever.I don't read it as a rule either.
It's entirely possible to do the thing your parent told you not to do, it's just that their might be consequences for doing so. Some of this advice is not boundary setting so much as "you may not realize this, but continuing on your course is a bad idea" (e.g. "don't eat the entire bag of cookies, you'll get sick to your stomach.")
If you happen to eat all the cookies, and get sick, that's your punishment. I see it as much the same as spending all your money on an item. You're mostly hurting yourself if you do it.
But in terms of Pathfinder game rules, I can't see anywhere in the text "should" is used to state hard and fast rules, rather than guidelines. A Wizard's highest score *should* be intelligence, but nobody's saying you *can't* play a Wizard with a 12 INT.
The way it's written it's no different than when parents tell their grown children what they should do. It's every bit as binding.I still read it as a rule. You don't. Whatever.I don't read it as a rule either.
At your table perhaps. Clearly, we read it differently at ours.
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For a Monk, I'd recommend spending 4k for a +2 Belt and spending the other 12k + 1k more to get Monk Robes.
But as mentioned by most above, whether you CAN get the +4 belt, (or even Monk robes for that matter) is going to be up to your GM.
I just noticed this was already mentioned, GJ Jesper, but it doesn't hurt to reiterate.
For the mention of Brass Knuckles to deal normal unarmed dmg but get a weapon enhancement that doesn't work either. Unfortunately the correct entry for Brass Knuckles comes from Ultimate Equipment and can be confirmed in this post by Sean Reynolds.
BRASS KNUCKLES
Price 1 gp
Type simple
These weapons fit snugly around the knuckles and allow you to deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike. You may hold, but not wield, a weapon or other object in a hand wearing brass knuckles. You may cast a spell with a somatic component while wearing brass knuckles if you make a successful concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell you're casting). Monks are proficient with brass knuckles. Brass knuckles can't be disarmed.
At your table perhaps. Clearly, we read it differently at ours.The way it's written it's no different than when parents tell their grown children what they should do. It's every bit as binding.I still read it as a rule. You don't. Whatever.I don't read it as a rule either.
You misread me. Grown children. As in they're adults in their own right. Just as binding as when 60+ year old parents tell their 30+ year old "kids" what they should be doing. Might be a fine suggestion, but that's all it is.
Ah, my mistake. Sorry.
gauntlets don't do anything with unarmed strikes other than making them lethal A gauntlet attack isn't an Unarmed strike, though it is an unarmed attack.for a monk. i would recommend a magic gauntlet to cheaply enhance your unarmed strikes, gauntlets count as unarmed strikes for all intents and purposes except that they allow non monks to deal lethal damage without penalty.
a gauntlet might be a metal glove, but it is still a glove.
a +1 Gauntlet, +2 Belt of Giant Strength, +2 Cloak of resistance, +1 ring of protection, +1 amulet of natural armor, 4 wands of cure light wounds for the party cleric to heal you with, bracers of armor +1, a handy haversack, whatever mundane supplies you need, like a cart and some donkeys, or food, and try to leave some pocket change for food, inn stays and the like, while converting the bulk of your gold excess to diamonds.
All unarmed strikes are unarmed attacks. Not all unarmed attacks are unarmed strikes.
Unarmed strike is defined under the unarmed attack rules in the core rulebook.
Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.
An unarmed character can't take attacks of opportunity (but see "Armed" Unarmed Attacks, below).
"Armed" Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
Note that being armed counts for both offense and defense (the character can make attacks of opportunity).
Unarmed Strike Damage: An unarmed strike from a Medium character deals 1d3 points of bludgeoning damage (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). A Small character's unarmed strike deals 1d2 points of bludgeoning damage, while a Large character's unarmed strike deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage. All damage from unarmed strikes is nonlethal damage. Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on).
Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll.
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I never said you had to follow every rule in the book - no one does the GM decides that. I just said it was a rule.I still read it as a rule. You don't. Whatever.I don't read it as a rule either.
Which it is not, which has been what everyone else has been saying. It's a suggestion.
That Gauntlet FAQ can't come fast enough, since we really don't need to rehash the argument in every relevant thread, do we?
I believe the 1 year anniversary of that FAQ being promised is coming this summer.
That Gauntlet FAQ can't come fast enough, since we really don't need to rehash the argument in every relevant thread, do we?
I believe the 1 year anniversary of that FAQ being promised is coming this summer.
I have hopes that this and the mithral FAQ and other equipment questions will be answered with the new equipment book they are released. Cause I can see them releasing that book and stating the errata/FAQ for other books to match this book.
That Gauntlet FAQ can't come fast enough, since we really don't need to rehash the argument in every relevant thread, do we?
I believe the 1 year anniversary of that FAQ being promised is coming this summer.
Could you please link us to it so we can hit the FAQ button?
Here Jason says, "As for the specifics of this issue (gauntlets and such), I will review these with the team next week and we will address this further then."
Get two different +2 items
Get two different +2 items, then something for saves and AC.
Sean K. Reynolds on whether WBL is rules or guidelines. IMHO it applies to all the text about spending on individual items as well.
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Sean K. Reynolds on whether WBL is rules or guidelines. IMHO it applies to all the text about spending on individual items as well.
Defintely gonna disagree with him, especially about CR. It's a rule when building a monster and determining XP, but facing them? Guideline. Complete and total guideline. That entirely depends on the makeup of the party.
Or just throw a couple of Orcs with one level of Barbarian at your level 1 party :3
Automatic Bonus progression is generally a pretty good guideline for "what you should have at this level" if you're buying gear for a mid-level character.
Per ABP a level 7 character should own: +2 Headband, +2 Belt, +1 ring of protection, +1 cloak of resistance, +1 weapon, and +1 armor.
Since the character in question is a monk, they don't want the armor and may not want the weapon, but in place you could likely afford a +1 AoMF. That would put at 4k+4k+2k+1k+4k=15,000 gold pieces spent, leaving you 7,300 to spend on other stuff.
Bracers of Armor would be the armor equivalent for a Monk.
Bracers of Armor would be the armor equivalent for a Monk.
Yeah, so instead of a +4 Belt of Strength for 16k gold, instead purchase:
+1 AoMF (4k)
+2 Belt of Strength (4k)
+2 Headband of Wisdom (or CHA if scaled fist) (4k)
+1 Bracers of Armor (1k)
+1 Cloak of Resistance (1k)
+1 Ring of Protection (2k)
For 16k.
Basically I need the +4 Belt of Giant Strength to get my Strength to 25 so I can get the feat Ogre Crush so I can constrict. Some people have said just get belt of anaconda coils, but the damage is only 1D6, with Ogre Crush the damage is equal to ur unarmed strike damage. Don't know what I should do? Is the extra damage really important?
even if you enchant a gauntlet as a monk. you are only enchanting that specific hand. it doesn't apply to your other hand or even to kicks. it would also be a more sensible solution than making special gloves for the monk or forcing them to sacrifice their precious amulet slot.
even at 2302 gold to get a +1 gauntlet and keep your monk unarmed attack damage. you still suffer from multiple attribute dependency and are likely still missing more often than a rogue. despite monks and rogues both having no built in mechanic to boost their accuracy and rogues having an extra damage mechanic that requires the help of an ally to set up.
at least with the gauntlet if allowed to work, you can get the +5 gauntlet and still devote a special ability to something like agile. at least for that hand.
or you can at least boost your accuracy at an affordable rate. because the promise of 2d10 damage at 20th level is pretty much nothing in a game where it isn't the weapons base damage that is important, but the static bonuses you apply to the damage.
and the whole advantage of flurry is you can do two weapon fighting with one limb, so please, allow the use of gauntlets with monk unarmed damage. so monks can at least partially mitigate their underpowered balance issues.
i don't understand how it makes logical sense that your punch would do less damage than normal just because you put a metal glove over it.
monks literally require a means to cheaply apply enchantments to their fists, and they literally don't have one, because the amulet of mighty fists gets a huge price markup due to augmenting both unarmed strikes and the druid's natural weapons.
most druids don't become octopi and most monks have poor accuracy and still would, even if they could use gauntlets and keep their monk unarmed strike damage.
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Sean K. Reynolds on whether WBL is rules or guidelines. IMHO it applies to all the text about spending on individual items as well.Defintely gonna disagree with him, especially about CR. It's a rule when building a monster and determining XP, but facing them? Guideline. Complete and total guideline. That entirely depends on the makeup of the party.
Or just throw a couple of Orcs with one level of Barbarian at your level 1 party :3
Frankly, given the variability from campaign to campaign that you'd find, I don't even see the point of calling the WBL table a rule rather than a guideline. It seems like a really pointless fuss.
look at how many other RPGs, Tabletop, Console and Online, have a class built around unarmed combat that bears a rather monk like flavor, look at how many of those other RPGs encourage their "Monks" to Wear Gauntlets to increase their unarmed damage output. in Pathfinder, there is literally absolutely no difference between just allowing monks to use enchanted gauntlets to augment their monk unarmed damage and coming up with special magic gloves, with the exception that the gauntlets would take less page count and require less effort to create.
if you look at home games where monks aren't using magic gauntlets, it is because the GM is including magic gloves that enchant punches for the price of just the weapon enhancement of a single weapon, or simply allowing monks to enchant their hands directly, but a simpler and more efficient solution, would be to allow all these punching weapons like spiked gauntlets, gauntlets, cesti and brass knuckles to count as a monk's unarmed strikes for all intents and purposes because a punch is a freaking punch is a freaking punch, even if you are punching while wearing a metal glove.
the amulet of mighty fists is way too expensive, even and especially for monks and druids, and literally denies the amulet of natural armor without rules for using alternate slots for magic items.
and to me, it makes sense, that if a monk wants to punch harder and enchant their fists, they should wear a gauntlet or greave on any hand or foot they wish to enchant. this also solves the special material problem and to an extent, fixes some of the issues with physical damage types, the issue with enchantment costs, and the issue with monks being able to get fewer enchantments or not being able to get weapon exclusive flat cost enchantments.
look at just about any other RPG from any other medium, or just about any tabletop RPG made in the post PS1 Era up to the modern day that wasn't a remake of an old classic or made to evoke nostalgia. monks and other unarmed combatants in those games wore gauntlets and because they wore gauntlets, it was easier to balance out their damage calculations and was also easier to keep them fair with other classes, instead of being less damaging than a character that overspent on their weapon and more damaging than a character who bought their weapon for pocket change. it also makes sense that a monk would prefer to fight with gauntlets in a world with dangerous arcane hazards that could permanently cripple a bared forearm.
and yes, wealth by level is actually used to determine how much wealth of permanent magical bonuses a character should have when fighting a specific monster, but the inherent bonus system is a more realistic measurement.
because the mandatory stat boosting magic items are mandatory, whether magic armor, magic melee weapon, magic ranged weapon, magic backup weapon, second magic backup weapon, magic light piercing weapon, physical stat boosters, mental stat boosters, ring of protection, cloak of resistance, amulet of natural armor, handy haversack, a wand of cure light wounds for each fight, diamonds for restorations, spell components,
Being a one trick pony is never worth it. At 7th you do 1d8 damage with your unarmed attack that is on the average 1 point of damage more. For that point damage you give up +3 AC +1 save, 1 point of Ki, and 1 DC on any monk abilities requiring a saving throw. This is assuming you are purchasing equipment similar to what Possible Cabbage suggested.
As to the gauntlet that has pretty much been ruled out by Paizo. The monk does not really need the amulet of natural armor as much as you might think. If you are using the unchained monk or the Qinggong monk you can get barkskin as a Ki power. This allows you to get a natural armor bonus long before you normally would and at a higher bonus. This also helps pay for the amulet of mighty fists since you no longer need to spend gold on the amulet.