Hello everyone,
I'm relatively new to PF2e and currently read descriptions of polymorph spells. Comparing them I've stumbled about a small but maybe important difference:
- * Some of them (e.g. CRB's Aerial Form, s. https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=4, or SoM's Aberrant Form, s. https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=861) contain the phrase "When you cast this spell, choose", while ...
- * others (e.g. CRB's Animal Form, s. https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=10, or SoM's Ooze Form, s. https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=962 ) contain the phrase "When you first cast this spell, choose"
Now I am confused.
Does the latter really mean that you have to make a binding decision at the first casting time of the spell, and afterwards you can only assume the exact same form at subsequent castings?
If Yes:
- How permanent is that choice? Until the characters death? Until retraining? (And then retraining what, exactly? - A choice within a spell? Are there precedents for something like this? Would it be like retraining repertoire spells?)
- It would definitely reduce the usability of these (by default usually just 1 min long) spells. Intuitively this interpretation feels wrong to me. (But who am I to criticise.)
On the other hand and if No:
- What is the word "first" supposed to mean there?
Thanks in advance for any help and additional thanks for all the community support in general. It helps me a lot to get into this game, which (honestly) appeared pretty scary at first. (Keyword: 600+ pages CRB :-))
Wow, thank you cavernshark, for this high-speed response!
The choice in both cases is made upon casting the spell, not when learned. The simplest answer here is that the word 'first' is extraneous and probably missed in an editing pass. It doesn't add...[...]
Admittedly, it could be that I like the answer even better because it goes in the same direction I have tended to. :-)
I might add: My confusion could have been worsened by a language issue. English is not my mother tongue. I translated by heart and also used a machine as additional translation and double-check whether I simply misunderstood the English sentence, at first. Only because the meaning of aforementioned phrases kept being differently (whether English or translated, IMHO), I opened this thread.
I was still slightly wondering how a word that (for me) could strongly alter the meaning has survived about 4 years of Errata. Yet, presuming "it escaped correction" seems plausible to me, too. In the meantime, I haven't found any further examples of the questionable "When you first cast this spell", yet.
Gladly, I'll also try to heed the advice regarding the common sense vs (as you put it) legalistic parsing. I find it interesting because when I first came to the forum, I had the impression that there are many "Rules Lawyers" ;-) around. (Please don't get me wrong. I want to mean it positively. I found many users to demonstrate a level of "rules literacy" and competence far, far superior to my own, and I was amazed how you guys discussed and interpreted the rules. )
I might add: My confusion could have been worsened by a language issue. English is not my mother tongue. I translated by heart and also used a machine as additional translation and double-check whether I simply misunderstood the English sentence, at first. Only because the meaning of aforementioned phrases kept being differently (whether English or translated, IMHO), I opened this thread.
Yes, that does happen. We have seen that before too.
Gladly, I'll also try to heed the advice regarding the common sense vs (as you put it) legalistic parsing. I find it interesting because when I first came to the forum, I had the impression that there are many "Rules Lawyers" ;-) around.
There are several of us floating around. And it may be that what you ask sparks a lengthy debate about something. But it is usually a pretty good discussion.
I didn't reply in this case because cavernshark got here first and I didn't actually have anything to add to that response.
Thanks again!
And I hope Paizo uses next round of Errata/Remastering to finally get rid of the confusing word "first", which confused me at first. ;-)
PS: I hope our GM will not came out as lawyer insisting that the word must mean something or not be there. :-) It would be a pity, if an inspiring Spell like Animal Form became engraved to something like fixed "Ape Form" / ... / "Snake Form" after first casting. ("Frog Form" would be my personal favourite :-D.)
But that potential future discussion might exceed the scope of this thread and doesn't have to be your problem.
There was a recent thread similar to that idea but regarding the damage type of Divine Lance.
A similar argument could be made about the spell Resist Energy - that you have to pick when you learn the spell or when you prepare the spell about which type of energy it is protecting against.
But that is not how spells are generally written and interpreted. These choices about how many actions it takes to cast some of them (such as Heal, Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, or Inner Radiance Torrent), what type of damage they deal (Divine Lance), what type of damage they protect against (Resist Energy), what form you change into (Animal Form, Elemental Form, Dragon Form), and other such decisions are all made at the time the spell is cast, and each time the spell is cast.