Let's say an ogre killed a human knight and grabbed his fabulous magic sword. Would the magic sword become bigger so that the new owner (the ogre) can use it? Likewise, if a human kills a storm giant and snatch the giant's magic axe, would the axe become smaller so that the new owner (the human) can use it? My memory may be not accurate but I think this rule was present in Pathfinder First Edition and all editions of D&D. Surely looting would be meaningless if the magic items do not change their size according to the owner, right?
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I don't believe Magic items automatically resize in PF2:
- Small and Medium size creatures use the same gear, which greatly limits the need for resizing.
- Magic Weapons and Armor are (usually) rune-based, so you normally just transfer the runes to more appropriately sized items.
I don't believe Magic items automatically resize in PF2:Even in prior editions, weapons and armor never resized (though other gear often did).
- Small and Medium size creatures use the same gear, which greatly limits the need for resizing.
- Magic Weapons and Armor are (usually) rune-based, so you normally just transfer the runes to more appropriately sized items.
In 3.X/PF1 armor used to resize in the sense that a 300 pound beefy warrior could wear the same plate armor as the svelte elf under 100. Maybe "refitted" would be a better word. Before that you had to pay an unspecified amount to have it adjusted (though we're talking plate; many looser armors didn't have this drawback). Weapons flat out didn't resize, though there were some unique ones that did.
I haven't seen any indication in PF2 that gear resizes other than magic clothing, i.e. boots, though I can't cite. Traditionally rings used to resize too, and that seems pretty necessary given halfling hands.
Where does it say that Small & Medium creatures use the same weapons & armor in PF2? (Other gear I'm pretty sure has to be that way.)
Yes, they have the same stats, but so do all weapons from a tiny creature's longsword to a huge giant's (other than Bulk).
Pathfinder 1st Edition has sizes for weapons. Pathfinder 2nd Edition doesn't. Without an actual size listed on an item, how can the party tell what size it is or know that it resized? The GM would have to describe the of the item based on origin and figure out whether the weapon can be physically resized in a shop. For treasure found in a random cache, that would be difficult. Ignoring size is easier.
Recently, the party in my campaign found a Robe of Mirrors, Greater Cloak of Elven Kind, and a heavily enchanted Rat-Catcher Trident (the trident was imspired by this post that talked of the merits of a paladin with a trident). The location was a former sprite village, with the premise that Tiny sprites had used those items. But the items were placed there for the party to use, so I needed them Small or Medium size. Therefore, to give both a nod to the sprites and a useful final size, I had the items automatically grow from Tiny to Small upon a Small party member picking them up.
The resizing wasn't a rule, it was just convenient. If I change my mind later, I will claim that fey magic resized the items.
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Pathfinder 1st Edition has sizes for weapons. Pathfinder 2nd Edition doesn't.
Quick tell the giant instinct barbarian that :p
Jokes aside, equipment size is a thing in pf2e, it just doesn't have a mechanical difference baked into the item.
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Where does it say that Small & Medium creatures use the same weapons & armor in PF2? (Other gear I'm pretty sure has to be that way.)
Yes, they have the same stats, but so do all weapons from a tiny creature's longsword to a huge giant's (other than Bulk).
Wait, so a small goblin's greatword and a huge storm giant's greatword deal the same amount of damage? That's... totally illogical and unrealistic!
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Can't have unrealistic things in our fantasy RPG now, can we?
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Wait, so a small goblin's greatword and a huge storm giant's greatword deal the same amount of damage? That's... totally illogical and unrealistic!Where does it say that Small & Medium creatures use the same weapons & armor in PF2? (Other gear I'm pretty sure has to be that way.)
Yes, they have the same stats, but so do all weapons from a tiny creature's longsword to a huge giant's (other than Bulk).
The weapon dice might be the same. You don't take damage penalties for using oversized weapons, but you are Clumsy while using them.
In other editions, die size differences meant that oversized weapons could be more powerful rather than less, so that's a big improvement in realism there.
Pathfinder 1st Edition has sizes for weapons. Pathfinder 2nd Edition doesn't.Quick tell the giant instinct barbarian that :p
Jokes aside, equipment size is a thing in pf2e, it just doesn't have a mechanical difference baked into the item.
Oops, I overgeneralized from the lack of difference between Small and Medium, and forgot that Tiny and Large have some differences: Items and Sizes
The rules for items of different sizes tend to come into play when the characters defeat a big creature that has gear, since in most cases, the only creatures of other sizes are creatures under the GM’s control. In most cases, Small or Medium creatures can wield a Large weapon, though it’s unwieldy, giving them the clumsy 1 condition, and the larger size is canceled by the difficulty of swinging the weapon, so it grants no special benefit. Large armor is simply too large for Small and Medium creatures.
Weapons of different sizes have the same hit dice. Magic items of different sizes have the same effect, if the character can properly hold or wear them. Thus, I forgot that different sizes mattered.
Wait, so a small goblin's greatword and a huge storm giant's greatword deal the same amount of damage? That's... totally illogical and unrealistic!Where does it say that Small & Medium creatures use the same weapons & armor in PF2? (Other gear I'm pretty sure has to be that way.)
Yes, they have the same stats, but so do all weapons from a tiny creature's longsword to a huge giant's (other than Bulk).Giants, which are monsters, will have a flat extra damage resembling their power.
And Monsters/Creatures are built different from characters.
For balance purposes.
What happens is that the damage dealt by enemy creatures is determined by level-based math. Table 2–10: Strike Damage in the Building Creatures section of the Gamemastery Guide gives the numbers for us GMs to use. A Hill Giant, creature 7, has "Melee [One Action] greatclub +19 [+14/+9] (backswing, reach 10 feet, shove), Damage 1d10+14 bludgeoning." That is an average of 19.5 bludgeoning damage. Table 2-10 recommends an average of 20 damage for a 7th-level high-damage creature, so though the greatclub is stuck at 1d10, the giant gains a +14 bonus to damage, much bigger than its Str +6. The greatclub strike did gain the reach of the giant's long arm.
For comparison, a Bruiser of the Celestial Menagerie, creature 8, has, "Melee [One Action] greatclub +20 [+15/+10] (backswing, magical, shove), Damage 2d10+10 bludgeoning." That is an average of 21 damage, slightly less than the 22 damage recommended by Table 2-10. Rather than give the Medium-sized human Str +5 bruiser a +15 bonus, the module writer gave him a +1 striking greatclub so that the bonus could be a smaller +10.
The giant's size and strength justified its 19.5 damage with a greatclub, while the human bruiser's striking enchantment justified its 21 damage with a greatclub. And I guess my PCs never cared about oversized weapons as loot because those weapons tend to be underenchanted.
This hadn't occurred to me until now, but it seems like (before TGTBT is applied) a PC could wield a weapon of a size smaller than their own, and deal the same damage but have less Bulk to worry about, no?
Ask your GM, the rules only cover what happens if a small or medium creature tries to wield a large weapon.
My memory may be not accurate but I think this rule was present in Pathfinder First Edition and all editions of D&D. Surely looting would be meaningless if the magic items do not change their size according to the owner, right?
Your memory is definitely not accurate =P
D&D v3 and PF1, weapons and armor absolutely did not resize.But, it's your game. Play it how you want.
My memory may be not accurate but I think this rule was present in Pathfinder First Edition and all editions of D&D. Surely looting would be meaningless if the magic items do not change their size according to the owner, right?Your memory is definitely not accurate =P
D&D v3 and PF1, weapons and armor absolutely did not resize.
But, it's your game. Play it how you want.
Yeah, being a small warrior sucked re: found items (as well as weapon damage of course). PFS1 alleviated that somewhat by having the small version available afterward, but yeah. PF2 and it sounds like PFS2 really made it so size would hinder PC choices as little as feasible.
Magic Weapons and Armor are (usually) rune-based, so you normally just transfer the runes to more appropriately sized items.
This being the most important point. In 90% of cases you can just transfer runes. It takes a small amount of downtime, but it is not difficult.
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Yeah, being a small warrior sucked re: found items (as well as weapon damage of course). PFS1 alleviated that somewhat by having the small version available afterward, but yeah. PF2 and it sounds like PFS2 really made it so size would hinder PC choices as little as feasible.My memory may be not accurate but I think this rule was present in Pathfinder First Edition and all editions of D&D. Surely looting would be meaningless if the magic items do not change their size according to the owner, right?Your memory is definitely not accurate =P
D&D v3 and PF1, weapons and armor absolutely did not resize.
But, it's your game. Play it how you want.
Yeah, small and medium sizes are essentially identical in PF2: I think certain maneuvers (like Grapple, Shove, and Trip) are the only place where small vs medium normally* makes a difference now.
Overall, this has been a huge improvement for the 'little guy' who wants to be in the front line...
*Specific feats (like Distracting Shadows) might also care about your specific size.
Well, if magic items don't resize, then what if I cast a polymorph spell? If I cast Enlarge or Shrink spell, or if I use Giant's Stature feat, my equipment would change size accordingly. Then what if I use Animal Rage feat or cast Wild Shape? Would my equipment change size too?
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Well, if magic items don't resize, then what if I cast a polymorph spell? If I cast Enlarge or Shrink spell, or if I use Giant's Stature feat, my equipment would change size accordingly. Then what if I use Animal Rage feat or cast Wild Shape? Would my equipment change size too?
Individual abilities have their own rules (Polymorph generally absorbs equipment unless the spell text indicates otherwise).
This subject of this thread is 'can a halfling use weapons/armor just looted from an Ogre or Frost Giant corpse without using a special ability of some sort?' for which the answer seems to be 'No'.
Wait, so a small goblin's greatword and a huge storm giant's greatword deal the same amount of damage? That's... totally illogical and unrealistic!Where does it say that Small & Medium creatures use the same weapons & armor in PF2? (Other gear I'm pretty sure has to be that way.)
Yes, they have the same stats, but so do all weapons from a tiny creature's longsword to a huge giant's (other than Bulk).
It's a matter of abstracted power vs accuracy (see also the differences and interactions between precision damage and attack roll bonuses and critical hits and flat damage bonuses and more/larger damage dice and 'called shot'-type mechanics). That, and hit points being a big undefined abstraction.
If anything I'd call "axe bigger so it do bigger hurt when I swing it!" the unrealistic take, and the damage increases from larger weapons became pretty absurd and overbearing in PF1E, as far as I can tell.
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With the introduction of Striking runes, they had to keep the actual weapon damage to a reasonable range or things could have spiraled out of control pretty quickly (like it could in PF1)...
I'd lean towards letting them resize unless some reason, at least for magic items. This might actually increase the cost to the user, which would explain why it's not normally done -- why pay an extra hundred gold for armour that won't shrink to human-size if they ever got their hands on it when that could go towards more important things?
Yes, I also see the logic there and with non-magical arms and armour not resizing. A human trying to strap on a halfling's breastplate is going to encounter problems, and a halfling donning a human's breastplate likewise. So you can't put on the storm giant's silk dress for the next palace dance either.