Hi all:
I’ve been reading this board for about a year and a half, and the info has proved very helpful for me as a DM. So I’d like to start by thanking everyone for their great ideas and thoughts.
While I’m running the SCAP pretty much “by the book”, my work on foreshadowing and NPC development has been influenced by many on these boards.
We just finished “Zenith Trajectory” with 5PCs, now all at level 9. As I’ve started to foreshadow some aspects of the “Test of the Smoking Eye”, I’ve had a growing sense that the chapter is out of place. Obviously, similar feedback has been posted here by others.
So, I’m wondering what to do about it.
On the one hand, much of the babbling by Zenith Splintershield and Alek Tercival re: the Sign of the Smoking Eye leads nicely to Occipitus and the Test.
On the other hand, once we learn all this stuff about Adimarchus and someone gains the template, we don’t seem to need it again until chapter 12.
I was thinking about moving the “Test” all the way back to after “Strike on Shatterhorn”.
The chapters would then read like this, starting at 5:
Demonskar Legacy
Secret of the Soul Pillars
Lords of Oblivion
Foundation of Flame
Thirteen Cages
Strike on Shatterhorn
Test of the Smoking Eye
Asylum
While I’d have to significantly rework the CRs and ELs in “Test of the Smoking Eye” to adjust for the higher level characters, it would have the benefit of making the search for, and destruction of, Adimarchus a multi-chapter outer plane quest-o-rama.
The party would also have a hook for this as Smoking Eye Vhalantru comes back to hunt them from Occipitus. The PCs have to go there to defeat him anyway.
I’d like some feedback on this idea. Except for the obvious XP considerations, what are some problems that might arise? Are there things that are gained during this adventure that will be needed from “Secrets” through to “Strike”? If so, what are they?
Is there a better chapter order than what I’ve suggested? What are some other opportunities presented by this?
Any feedback would be helpful.
I think James Jacobs or Eric Mona mentioned that if the AP didn't have to take players up to 20tyh level, it would probably have ended after Foundation of Flame.
You could consider dropping the entire Adimarchus angle alltogether. If you do, the final adventure in the book would become Foundation of Flame. It means the PCs miss out on the planar romp, but in return you get a plot that fits together in a more natutal way.
either way, I would recomend dropping several of the cagewrights and turn some of your recurring NPCs into either masters or apprentices.
Feel free to toss around some ideas around here. Good luck.
Also bear in mind that the sum total advantage of the Smoking Eye template (aside from making a PC a little tougher) is that the person with the template can release Adimarchus. Remove that weakness (or, rather, expand on it) so that anybody can release him, and you don't need it.
Consider strongly, however, replacing that chapter with something that provides a few levels of experience, though, otherwise the party will be under-levelled and under-wealthed for the remainder of the story.
I was thinking about moving the “Test” all the way back to after “Strike on Shatterhorn”.
I like this idea, but with slight modifications:
Demonskar Legacy
Seige of Redgorge (see DelvesDeep's alternate)
Secret of the Soul Pillars
Lords of Oblivion
Foundation of Flame
Thirteen Cages
Test of the Smoking Eye (replaces Shatterhorn)
Asylum
The flow through this is more clean, with all of the planar stuff happening at the end. The Seige would (hopefully) fill in the levels missed. The ending of Thirteen Cages could directly lead into Test by having an Outsider come to them directly, with the reasoning that they have stopped the Tree.
My group is finishing Flood Season, and will be attending DelvesDeep's Demonskar Ball. I recommend looking into it at www.therpgenious.com along with other comments on the board here.
If you are considering some alternative to Strike on Shatterhorn, I was always disappointed with the paucity of demodands. Considering that the Cagewrights were founded and run by demodands, it seems like encounters with them would be a more natural next step. Since Adimarchus is trapped in a prison and demodands are like wardens, it would make sense to have them guarding the test that would allow someone to free Adimarchus.
So, you may wish to consider Occipitus as an occupied Layer where demondands in various forms are trying to prevent anyone from passing the test.
I would argue against moving "Smoking Eye" to a later stage of the AP. Here's my reasoning: the 3.5 PC advancement system involves two big leaps forward. The first usually happens at 6-7th level, and the second happens at 12th level. The latter shift comes partly from access to more powerful magic, but it's also the new feat, the ability boost, and in many cases, the introduction of multiple attacks per round. Gameplay is simply different, and newer players often marvel at how powerful their characters suddenly seem.
If there is a significant quest in the AP whose completion coincides with this 12th-level milestone, then the perceived power boost makes a lot more sense. The characters return from an (unexpected) Abyssal quest, and they find themselves far more powerful than before. It's almost as if some destiny had guided them there, in order to prepare them for the greater trials ahead (hmm...).
If you have a party of psychodrama role-players, then the trip to the Abyss also gives them lots of dramatic material to chew on after their return. They have seen things no mortal should ever see; depending on how the final test plays out, they may have made or seen sacrifices that could leave them haunted, scarred...they will generally be more hardened heroes, which suits their new power levels perfectly.
There are, of course, lots of other ways to achieve this effect. Including a Seige of Redgorge chapter could make them battle-hardened. But in my campaign, I went into the "Smoking Eye" chapter thinking it was WAY too early for a jaunt to the Abyss...and then, when it was over, I and my players agreed that it was a perfectly timed baptism of fire.
I can see both sides but I like the idea.
The TotSE always seemed disjointed and out of place with the rest of the Path and, as Chief said earlier, if you removed the final chapter it would be irrevalent.
In fact if you want to condense the Path removing the Test of the Smoking Eye adventure, Strike on Shatterhorn and Asylum SCAP would seem much more fluid and less contrived.
The reason I wrote up the Alternative Adimarchus and Cagewrights document (with help from posters here) was because of this direct reason. If you wanted Adimarchus to be the ultimate villian and have the final encounter with him be the climaxical event it should be then he needed to be foreshadowed and be directly responible for much of the evil that the party and Cauldron has had to endure over the journey.
I reduced the size of the Cagewrights significantly for the same reason and changed their structure into 1 leader, 6 masters and 6 apprentices to try and make the villians more meaningful.
I think section8's idea would prove the best mix (also he included the Seige of Redgorge in as well which always helps :) ) but I think you are on the right track regardless.
Leaving the adventure where it is does allow for further early foreshadowing of Adimarchus and a direct link to the fallen angel from half-way through the Path so this is a definite positive but without a buildup it still strikes me as very disjointed compared to the adventures around it.
Maybe you just need to change the Adventure Hook?
Good Luck
Delvesdeep