Discrepancy between Party Treasure and Character Wealth

[Fantasty]

I'm currently building a Level 5 Wizard from scratch, and I expected that I would be able to start out with a +1 Explorer's Clothes given that the +1 Potency Rune for Armor is a 5th level item. However, going over Table 10-10 Character Wealth, it seems I'm not allowed to pick any 5th level items for my character.

I find this rather weird, because going by Table 10-9 Party Treasure by Level, the row for Level 4 indicates that the party as a whole should already own 2 5th level items by the time they reach Level 5. Also, wouldn't it be a big deal for a Level 5 character to *not* have a +1 armor, given how the game is balanced around the idea of the PCs having access to such items at the appropriate levels?

What makes this a bit frustrating for me is that I was planning on making my Wizard specialise in Crafting, so even though I wouldn't be able to start with a +1 Explorer's Clothes, I would be able to Craft one just fine. Is there anything preventing me from doing that?

Am I missing something here?

[Ravingdork]

There's nothing preventing you from crafting +1 explorer's clothes, but you can't do that during character creation to get around downtime or other rules.

I've heard it said that the Starting Funds for High Level Characters is intended to fall a little short, since you get to cherry pick your items. It's a balancing factor against those who are already in game and have not had that option.

[breithauptclan]

You should also get some amount of coin along with the permanent items. You may be able to afford the +1 rune for your clothes out of that.

[Ascalaphus]

Table 10-10 puts you a bit behind on capital, but that's intended to compensate because you get to cherry-pick the items you actually want, instead of random ones you found on previous adventures.

As for starting without level 5 items at level 5: that's actually not as bad as you think. Look at table 10-9; a normal party adventuring from level 4 to 5 can expect to find two level 5 items, so when they're juuuust level 5, only half the party might have gotten +1 armor runes, and the other two hopeful that they'll find them somewhere during level 5 and before level 6.

And that's pretty close to what the explanation for table 10-10 says:

CRB wrote:

These values are for a PC just starting out at the given

level. If the PC is joining a party that has already made
progress toward the next level, consider giving the new
character an additional item of their current level.

...

Fantasty wrote:

I find this rather weird, because going by Table 10-9 Party Treasure by Level, the row for Level 4 indicates that the party as a whole should already own 2 5th level items by the time they reach Level 5. Also, wouldn't it be a big deal for a Level 5 character to *not* have a +1 armor, given how the game is balanced around the idea of the PCs having access to such items at the appropriate levels?

For a party with only existing characters, there would also be two who don't have a +1 rune at the start of level 5 either.

Fantasty wrote:

What makes this a bit frustrating for me is that I was planning on making my Wizard specialise in Crafting, so even though I wouldn't be able to start with a +1 Explorer's Clothes, I would be able to Craft one just fine. Is there anything preventing me from doing that?

Well if you're starting out just at the beginning of level 5 then obviously you're just at the beginning of level 5. A second ago your character wasn't high enough level to craft level 5 items, so you don't have any yet.

If the party is currently doing downtime, then of course you can start crafting. If they're about to head into the dungeon, then crafting will have to wait.

If you're starting out in the middle of level 5 to 6, then the clause from the CRB comes into play advising the GM to consider giving you an extra level 5 item to start with.

[HumbleGamer]

I see 2 possible scenarios:

1) If your group is starting at lvl 5, then it's ok that all of you have no lvl 5 items.

2) If your character joins a lvl 5 group after a while ( for example, after the group spent time earning income in the city, crafting items, or partially advance to lvl 6, resulting in other characters with lvl 5 stuff ) then it should be the DM the one giving you equal equipment.

ps: consider that if the group you join did a lot of downtime on the road to lvl 5 ( resulting in more items than required ) , the gm must give ( because not doing so would stronly penalize you ) almost the same resources as the other players.

[Castilliano]

I think part of it is that "5th level equipment" might be tuned to "just left 4th level" rather than being at the midpoint. As HumbleGamer mentioned, if the party's partially advanced toward 6th, then maybe there should be adjustments, as in advancing the wealth partially toward that of a 6th level PC.
The numbers might also be factoring in selling a portion of the treasure for half value or having burned consumables. Dunno, but that's made significant differences in some of my smaller groups who've run into traditionally good items that didn't fit anybody's build (or who find the good item they'd wanted right after spending their savings buying it).

[Ascalaphus]

As a player I think it can be worth NOT rushing to buy level X items right on hitting level X, because odds are you'll be finding the exact same items during level X before X+1.

If by level X+1 you haven't found the level X item you wanted, then might be the right time.

[Castilliano]

Ascalaphus wrote:

As a player I think it can be worth NOT rushing to buy level X items right on hitting level X, because odds are you'll be finding the exact same items during level X before X+1.

If by level X+1 you haven't found the level X item you wanted, then might be the right time.

That's my strategy in published adventures. I might buy nonstandard items or an item that unlocks a major facet of a build, but waiting has proven fruitful. It kinda depends on how treasure's distributed and the spirit of the campaign/party too.

[HumbleGamer]

Ascalaphus wrote:

As a player I think it can be worth NOT rushing to buy level X items right on hitting level X, because odds are you'll be finding the exact same items during level X before X+1.

AoA and EC prefer to differ.

[Ascalaphus]

HumbleGamer wrote:

Ascalaphus wrote:

As a player I think it can be worth NOT rushing to buy level X items right on hitting level X, because odds are you'll be finding the exact same items during level X before X+1.

AoA and EC prefer to differ.

I had the impression AoA was getting at it in later books.

The warning in the GMG about how 50-100% of permanent items should be "core" items (based on market access etc) wasn't in the CRB, I guess they noticed a bit late that they ought to have put it there.

Earlier on AoA seemed to suffer from writers wanting to be creative and preferring "interesting" items over core items. I'm not against interesting items but core items are important.

[Ravingdork]

Number of humanoid enemies makes a difference too. For example, Agents of Edgewatch has hundreds of fundamental runes due to the high number of humanoid enemies with gear.

[HumbleGamer]

Ascalaphus wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

Ascalaphus wrote:

As a player I think it can be worth NOT rushing to buy level X items right on hitting level X, because odds are you'll be finding the exact same items during level X before X+1.

AoA and EC prefer to differ.

I had the impression AoA was getting at it in later books.

That's good to know ( we are currently on book 4, and we noticed a sensible improvement in terms of good reawars, though too specific ).

It should be mentioned ( and allowed by dm ) that downtime is really suggested to properly fight encounters though.

[Captain Morgan]

My recollection of AoA is that they hand out fundamental runes at more or less the rate Ascalaphus describes. By level 5 I'm pretty sure there were at least two +1 striking weapons found, and I think a +1 armor rune as well.