Do kineticists become immune to dragons?


Kineticist Class


Okay.

I just read through elemental resistance, and the way it's written makes it seem way better than what I think wad intended.

Elemental Resistance reads: "while you have an element gathered, you gain resistance equal to your level to damage from a source that had that trait."

Further it goes on to describe that if you have gathered water, you would gain the resistance to strikes from a water elemental. Because the water elemental has the water trait.

For instance, a magma dragon has the fire trait, a copper dragon has the earth trait, a brine dragon has the earth trait.

As far as I can tell, elemental resistance would apply to anything that a monster with the corresponding trait has.

Ie. A fire kineticist with fire gathered gains resistance equal to their level to anything a magma dragon can do. Not just the breath, but the bite and claws as well.

Now, this might not be such a big deal, if it wasn't for Elemental Immunity which reads "Your elemental resistance becomes full immunity".

Does this mean a fire kintecist at level 17 becomes 100% immune to a magma dragons or even the spawn of rovagug?


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Yes you right due the example in Elemental Resistance/Immunity you become imune to all attacks creatures with the same trait of element you gathered:

Quote:
When you’re connected to an Elemental Plane, you’re protected from that element. While you have an element gathered, you gain resistance equal to your level to damage from a source that has that trait. For example, if you had water gathered, you would gain resistance to a Strike from a water elemental or damage from a hydraulic push spell.

This means that after level 17 specially the Universalist can become imune to:

Air
  • Cloud Dragons
  • Ixamè
  • Cloudsplitter
  • Flickerwisps
  • Inmyeonjos
  • Kirins
  • Storm Hags
  • Voidgluttons
  • Will-o’-Wisps
  • All air plane elemental creatures and air spells
    Earth
  • Copper Dragons
  • Sovereign Dragons
  • Desert Drakes
  • Jungle Drakes
  • Prairie Drakes
  • Cobbleswarms
  • Grikkitogs
  • Irlgaunts
  • Sturzstromers
  • Zetogekis
  • Bauble Beasts
  • Gargoyles
  • Animated Statues
  • Calcifda
  • Dalos
  • Duendes
  • Lampads
  • Stygiras
  • Cavern Trolls
  • Hill Giants
  • Stone Giants
  • Carnivorous Crystals
  • Cobblebone Swarms
  • Guecubu
  • All earth planes elemental creatures and earth spells
    Fire
  • Brass Dragons
  • Gold Dragons
  • Magma Dragons
  • Red Dragons
  • Underworld Dragons
  • Charau-ka Dragon Priests
  • Crag Linnorms
  • Flame Drakes
  • Manifestations Of Dahak
  • Mengkare
  • Peluda
  • Racharak
  • Raveners
  • Tor Linnorms
  • Veshumirix
  • Xotanispawns
  • Bul-Gaes
  • Crimson Worms
  • Cuetzmonquali
  • Eberarks
  • Kirins
  • Phoenixs
  • Sanzuwus
  • Thrasfyrs
  • Xotani
  • Hell Hounds
  • Peris
  • Dalos
  • Elananxs
  • Marrmoras
  • Agradaemons
  • Fire Yais
  • Fire Giants
  • Shadern Immolators
  • Jyotis
  • Cloudsplitter
  • Accursed Forge-Spurned
  • Combusteds
  • Dragonscarred Deads
  • Forge-Spurneds
  • Reborn Sun Hunters
  • Reborn Sun Mages
  • Reborn Sun Warriors
  • Sulfur Zombies
  • All fire planes elemental creatures, fire spells and fire damage
    Water
  • Brine Dragons
  • Bronze Dragons
  • Sea Dragons
  • River Drakes
  • Sea Drakes
  • Tidehawks
  • Water Orms
  • Grodairs
  • Minchgorms
  • Naiads
  • Nereids
  • Riekanoys
  • Rusalkas
  • Water Yais
  • Danava Titans
  • Draugrs
  • Drenchdeads
  • All water planes elemental creatures and water spells

    So yes this is completely unbalanced and certain will be checked by designers. For now, during playtest just have fun with it! ;D


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    Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

    I don't think the resistance and immunity work the same way.

    "While you have an element
    gathered, you gain resistance equal to your level to damage
    from a source that has that trait."

    Above is the wording on the resistance, giving you resistance to all damage from a source with your elemental trait.

    "While you
    have an element gathered, you’re immune to effects with
    that trait"

    And here is the wording on the immunity.

    A claw attack from a red dragon doesn't have the fire trait, but its breath weapon does. So you get resistance against everything the red dragon does equal to your level (the source of the damage has the fire trait) and are immune to it's breath weapon (an effect with the fire trait). To me that seems to be working as intended.

    EDIT: What I think is happening here is flavor text interfering with rules text. Elemental Resistance and Elemental Immunity are two seperate class features. That bit of flavor at the begining of Elemental Immunity is just that, flavor. It's not removing or modifying Elemental Resistance in any way. There are class features that overwrite or modify earlier class features in that way in PF2 (look at Master Overdrive on the Inventor) but those specifically call out the ability that they are modifying and how.


    Yet I still think that's need to be revised. Because it's still strange that's you will have even resistance to a Earth/Water dragon jaws just because they have these traits.

    IMO this resistances and immunities needs to be restricted only to attack/dmg trait. Makes sense that a water kineticist can disperse a water attack before hit it but the physical Strikes no.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    YuriP wrote:

    Yet I still think that's need to be revised. Because it's still strange that's you will have even resistance to a Earth/Water dragon jaws just because they have these traits.

    IMO this resistances and immunities needs to be restricted only to attack/dmg trait. Makes sense that a water kineticist can disperse a water attack before hit it but the physical Strikes no.

    I am not sure if the resistances/immunities in the playtest will make it through or not to the final class, but being resistant only to attacks with the element trait makes fire about 100 times better than the rest. It already is better for sure, but very few attacks get the air trait. Unless it can be adapted to certain other elemental traits, the resistances and immunities for most elements would be very bad.


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    The best option to prevent this is at last for the resistances/immunities add more 3 other energy types to each element. (usually cold to water, electricity to air, acid to earth)


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
    YuriP wrote:
    IMO this resistances and immunities needs to be restricted only to attack/dmg trait. Makes sense that a water kineticist can disperse a water attack before hit it but the physical Strikes no.

    I mean, diagetically what's the difference between a water elemental punching you with their fist made out of water versus hitting you with a hydraulic push?

    In both case a mass of water is being used to bludgeon you.


    IMO a GM discretion line is all you need here. The elemental damage a dragon deals would be resisted while the physical would not.

    Be interesting to see how metal works if this feature survives though.

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