I've run a lot of different games and am hoping to try out Pathfinder 2e for a longer adventure series (10-12 sessions). However, I'm trying to either collect or identify PF2e-specific resources for a number of different things and...not being very successful. Hopefully the forums can help!
Map Sizing
What are the ranges for a 'good' battle map size? Or even the considerations to take into mind? I'd assume the map size changes as characters level up and get access to more movement abilities. However, where would I look for any recommendations about that? Without 'trying it first,' how do I know if a battlemap that's 60' by 60' is okay or too big or too small? In what kind of situations does the map need to be significantly bigger or smaller (i.e. all melee characters so aim on smaller side of map size, etc)?
Secondary Objectives
The Gamemaster's guide has a brief section on secondary objectives. I'm coming from a GMing background with systems that don't usually have 'kill all foes' as the combat objective. What existing Adventure Paths, modules, third-party compilations, or homebrew compilations exist that show off examples of secondary objectives in use? Are there any solid recommendations for how long of a turn limit is too long or too short? I'd like to have an idea of whether (for example) a battle where PCs need to hold a hill for 8 rounds is going to drag or battling for control of 4 zones, 20' apart, for 6 rounds is too many zones, too close together, or for too many rounds before attempting to run it.
Average Turns per Encounter
Any resources or suggestions on how long a fight can be expected to last? I've heard 3-5 rounds before, presumably that's for an average 4-person fight against APL. How much (ish) does that change with 5 players or APL+1, etc? I know a lot of this is subjective since there are thousands of different PC configurations that can impact it, but I'm curious to know what the game's expected averages or general GM's experiences on those are.
Thank you in advance for any suggestions/recommendations/etc from experienced PF2e GMs!
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Map Sizing: The question is less about the size of the map than the distance between the protagonists at the beginning of the encounter.
20-30ft. is considered close range. It's a good range if you want the fight to happen and end up quickly.
40-60ft. is mid-range. For most melee martials it means 2 actions moving. It works fine but the first round may be a bit uneventful.
Above 60ft. you start long range combat. Expect many characters to have issues at such range. I prefer to avoid going at these ranges unless I have a very good reason as it makes the first rounds really boring.
When levelling, the characters gain higher move speed, so you can expand the categories a bit at very high level. But overall it doesn't change much.
Average rounds per encounter (and not turns): 3-5 rounds is often brought up, but I think it's closer to 3 than to 5. Asking for an objective that lasts for 8 rounds is far too long. Above 5 rounds, you have a very long fight. And it doesn't depend on the size of the party.
Secondary objectives: They are not really common in Adventure Paths. It's hard to design a fight around secondary objectives, it's something I'd keep for later if I was a new GM.
That's some solid advice for map sizing, thank you! I'd prefer to only use gridded maps for the actual battle maps instead of having regions or dungeon maps. It'd leave more room for improvising stuff mid-scene in an area.
Round length is good to know. Knowing how long a normal fight lasts, before getting too much system-experience, is helpful for first adventure setups.
Why would you say a fight is hard to design around secondary objectives? Specifically in regards to PF2? I'd prefer to design most/all battles around a main objective that isn't just 'defeat everything on the map.' It may be slightly off-kilter but I'm hoping to kind of run the game just like a Lancer session.
So, for example, a first adventure might be something simple like finding a farmer's lost kid. And the first combat may be the area the kid went missing which has a bunch of goblins trying to hide evidence of kidnapping. So PCs would need to control 2-3 zones that hold various evidence (tracks, clothing, whatever) that can help them find the child before the goblins eliminate that evidence. Zones could be 10x'x10' or 15'x15' areas on a 50'x50'ish map for that 'mid-range.
Based on your advice, I could give it a, say, a 4 round limit. Each round PC's get a Victory Point for each zone that has no goblins in it and at least one PC in it. Each zone with a goblin and no PC in it earns the NPC's a victory point. At the end of 4 rounds, whoever has the most victory points 'wins.' If PC's lose, we'd go into a narrative beat as they have to possibly retreat (too many goblins show up) or otherwise figure out a solution as goblins run away/scatter.
In your goblin example, maybe the players will try to negociate, maybe they won't care about evidences as they will quickly determine the goblins are the culprits, maybe they won't find your victory points realistic (as you are gamifying the search), maybe they won't understand your game.
When you fight for your life or to complete your mission, these questions are rarely raised, so the game doesn't fall apart.
I'm not sure there is a "good" map size. Larger maps favor ranged characters. Small maps favor melee. Three dimensional maps favor mobile characters with climbing options.
Personally, I like intricate maps where figuring out how you reach an enemy is as much a challenge as actually taking them out, but that's not a universal preference. I've really enjoyed encounters where we had to chase a flying enemy up a bell tower, while my fellow players hated it.
Average Turns per Encounter
Any resources or suggestions on how long a fight can be expected to last? I've heard 3-5 rounds before, presumably that's for an average 4-person fight against APL. How much (ish) does that change with 5 players or APL+1, etc? I know a lot of this is subjective since there are thousands of different PC configurations that can impact it, but I'm curious to know what the game's expected averages or general GM's experiences on those are.
3-5 sounds about right. The battle will end one way or another at about that point.
Having higher numbers of PCs means that you should have some more lower level enemies too. Adding more higher level enemies will cause the expected winner of the battle to swing to the enemy's side. Having too few enemies in total means that players won't have much opportunity to use (show off) their abilities.
But even with more PCs and more enemies, the battle will still likely take about 3-5 rounds. Either the enemies will win (take down a frontline PC or two or otherwise force the players to retreat - or just TPK them), or the players will win (same but opposite side).