I have a player who wants to take Gorum's divine fighting technique, as described about halfway down the page here:
https://www.aonprd.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Gorum
...and give it to Ragathiel, the god described here:
https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Ragathiel
I agree they are both very "fighty" gods, so in that sense it works. However, that Gorum power is for chaotic creatures using a greatsword. The player will be playing a lawful fighter using a bastard sword.
Especially after seeing in Ragathiel's description that his "agents" use divine fire, they seem more like Sarenrae style dudes than Gorum style dudes.
If your player asked to get Gorum's power transferred over to Ragathiel, would you do it? And if no, would you just stop there, or would you home brew some other divine fighting technique (since Ragathiel doesn't have one yet). What would that divine fighting technique look like? What power is cool, but still realistic for Ragathiel and lawful fighters?
I'd suggest something like:
You get +2 to hit and damage on each attack for the next round against a creature that has just hit an ally adjacent to you.
Advanced (BAB+10, Combat Reflexes)
You get an AoO against any creature that has just hit an ally adjacent to you. The above bonus applies.
I can't see a way to shoehorn in the divine fire, so I'm going for the fighty vengeance aspect.
i would maybe make something more themed to Ragathiel.
'Ragathiel's fiery charge'
the basic ability would go:
when you charge with a bastard sword it gain the flaming weapon ability until the end of your turn. if you do not use a bastard sword then when charging your weapons add 1 point of fire damage when they hit.
and the advanced id go with:
5 times per day when you charge you may gain the benefit of Shield of Wings but only for the charge's movement, each additional use after the first is done with one less wing then the former (the first time you charge in a day and use this ability it's with 5 wings, 2nd is with 4 etc). and you can use the fly movement to replace part of the charge if it's less then your normal speed (when the fly speed is 10 for example and your speed is 30 you can charge up to 60 feet on foot and have a part of the charge, up to 20 feet be done flying - to get over pits etc).
at the end of the first 4 uses you gain fire resistance 30 for 1 round, after the 5th use of this ability in a day you gain fire immunity for 1 minute.
i would maybe make something more themed to Ragathiel.
'Ragathiel's fiery charge'
the basic ability would go:when you charge with a bastard sword it gain the flaming weapon ability until the end of your turn. if you do not use a bastard sword then when charging your weapons add 1 point of fire damage when they hit.
I like this, but I'd make it Flaming Burst to get a bit more excitement out of it if you get a crit.
I like this, but I'd make it Flaming Burst to get a bit more excitement out of it if you get a crit.i would maybe make something more themed to Ragathiel.
'Ragathiel's fiery charge'
the basic ability would go:when you charge with a bastard sword it gain the flaming weapon ability until the end of your turn. if you do not use a bastard sword then when charging your weapons add 1 point of fire damage when they hit.
i'v thought about it, but it seemed too powerful for a feat one could\should be able to take at 1st-2nd level.
maybe add that when he get to level 10-12 like other class abilities that does so, or if he already use a flaming bastard sword.like
'if the bastard sword already has the flaming ability this feat grant it the flaming burst ability, until the end of the turn, instead.'
(this mean that if he has some special way to charge twice in the same turn any normal bastard sword would end up as flaming burst for the 2nd charge)
I like this, but I'd make it Flaming Burst to get a bit more excitement out of it if you get a crit.i'v thought about it, but it seemed too powerful for a feat one could\should be able to take at 1st-2nd level.
I mean, at the moment it's only giving +1d6 damage, only on a charge and only with the Bastard Sword . It just doesn't seem like you'd get much out of this feat.
If this was on a different weapon I'd probably agree. Taking an 18-20 weapon like a Scimitar from 2d6 to 3d6+1d10 seems like a big buff; it's more than double and it'll happen ~15% of the time. Taking a Bastard Sword with only a 19-20 crit-range from 2d10 to 3d10+1d6 is less impactful; it's less than double and it'll only happen 10% of the time.
Compared to Gorum's Swordsmanship it doesn't seem at all unbalanced.
good points.
revised version of the above suggestion:
'Ragathiel's fiery charge'
(aka 'the Holy Drill that Pierce the Heavens' :)
the basic ability would go:
when you make charge and attack with a bastard sword it gain the flaming burst weapon ability until the end of your turn. if you do not use a bastard sword then when charging your weapons add 1 point of fire damage when they hit.
and the advanced id go with:
5 times per day when you charge you may gain the benefit of Shield of Wings but only for the charge's movement, each additional use after the first is done with one less wing then the former (the first time you charge in a day and use this ability it's with 5 wings, 2nd is with 4 etc). and you can use the fly movement to replace part of the charge if it's less then your normal speed (when the fly speed is 10 for example and your speed is 30 you can charge up to 60 feet on foot and have a part of the charge, up to 20 feet be done flying - to get over pits etc).
at the end of the first 4 uses you gain fire resistance 30 for 1 round, after the 5th use of this ability in a day you gain fire immunity for 1 minute.
I love it! Thematic, powerful, has some nice utility ... *Chef's Kiss*
Ragathiel focuses a lot on fighting devils. The problem with making his divine fighting style ad normal flame is that devils are immune to flame. Instead of using flaming burst I would keep it flaming but treat the damage as divine damage allowing it to bypass immunity to flame.
A Divine fighting style is supposed to reflect the priorities of the deity. Adding damage that that is going to be ignored by a major opponent of the deity does not fit.
That's a good point Mysterious Stranger.
I'd just change it so it says: "Against Evil Outsiders this extra damage is instead Holy damage."
Again I would leave the Flaming Burst in. It's adding ~5.5 damage to 10% of your attacks, which is ~0.55 damage per attack on average. Except that this attack is a charge, so you can pnly attack once per round. So it's ~0.55 damage per round, and even then only some rounds. Even if you always rolled a 10 on your extra d10, and even with Improved Critical and Bless Weapon it's only adding an average of 2 points of damage per round, and again only on rounds when you charge. It's not game-breaking at all, but it does make it Feel more impactful.
How about removing the requirement to charge and limiting the damage to evil outsiders?
Something like when attacking an evil outsider with a bastard sword your weapon gains the flaming burst enchantment. This damage is considered divine damage and ignores fire resistance.
Yeah I'd be happy with that.
It'd make it more specific to certain campaigns, but in those campaigns it'd be more powerful.
Other divine fighting techniques are all martial techniques rather than special effects, and don't apply only to specific targets. So while holy flaming SFX against fiends is thematic for Ragathiel, it doesn't behave at all like the equivalent feats for other deities. But IYC, so pick your poison.
BTW, Irori's DFT is absolute garbage. -2 to hit to do slightly less damage! Someone was really asleep at the wheel on this one.
Sarenrae’s Mercy allows you to do nonlethal damage with spells with the fire, good or light descriptor and inflect spells. Urgathoa’s Hunger allows you to gain HP equal to the damage you deal with a scythe.
The ability to modify the damage type of a spell and to feed on the life force of any enemy are not what I would consider a martial technique.