Eldritch Archer / Spellslinger Spellstrike and Arcane gun interaction


Rules Questions


Hey all, hope everyone is having a good day. I've done a bunch of searching on Google and here, and I haven't found an answer to a couple questions.

I am playing a multiclass eldritch archer magus/spellslinger wizard. My first question is: if I cast a spell through my arcane gun, can I use ranged spellstrike?

Second, can I use ranged spellstrike in concert with ranged spell combat, and if so, how does it work?

The Exchange

First question is kinda iffy, but the answer is probably No.

With Ranged Spellstrike the spell is delivered as part of a ranged attack. You are actually firing a bullet from the gun as normal and the spell damage is an additional effect if you hit with the attack. When you use an Arcane Gun to deliver a spell you are only firing the spell through the gun - no projectile is fired.

I suppose you could make an argument that you could use both abilities as long as you met the conditions of: 1) The spell requires a ranged attack roll (no cones or lines) and 2) The spell is on the magus spell list. The Arcane Gun ability would be adding the gun's enhancement bonus to save DC (if any) and increasing the spell's critical modifier to x3 (if you chose to have only one gun). In return you are risking more broken guns and possible explosions. It seems to me like the rewards greatly outweigh the risks, so I wouldn't allow it, but talk to your GM.

Second question is easier: Yes, you can. Ranged Spell Combat in concert with Ranged Spellstrike works nearly identically to regular Spell Combat with Spellstrike. Deliver the attack using your gun.


1) No, but you won't have to. Arcane Gun fires the magic directly from the weapon. Ranged Spellstrike delivers the magic along with a ranged weapon attack. Arcane Gun is the superior option as it retains its ability to hit touch AC (though it has its own downsides). Just keep in mind that both options first require you to cast a spell, and the attack roll that is normally made for free to deliver it comes after the casting.

2) Yes. Ranged Spellstrike only cares about you casting a spell. It don't care how you cast the spell, even if it is during Spell Combat. Spell Combat allows you to cast a spell as part of a full attack action. If the spell fits the criteria to be used through Ranged Spellstrike or Arcane gun, you can do so.

The Exchange

I agree with your answers, DeathlessOne, but wanted to point out one thing in this unique situation:

DeathlessOne wrote:
Ranged Spellstrike delivers the magic along with a ranged weapon attack. Arcane Gun is the superior option as it retains its ability to hit touch AC. . .

Advanced firearms always target touch within 5 range increments. Even early firearms target touch within the first range increment. So if your gun is a musket, you are targeting touch within 40' even while spellstriking. In the rare event you are casting a spell that requires a ranged attack roll but doesn't target touch (can't think of one off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure some exist) then using Ranged Spellstrike with a gun is actually an improvement over Arcane Gun.


That is actually a good point, Belafon. I'll amend my statement to say that it is an equivalent option, considering that Arcane Gun still gives you a bonus to hit (or to spell DC) and better crit chance at the risk of an explosive mishap.

Its a personal opinion, though. I tend to avoid options that have a good chance to blow up in my face.

The Exchange

DeathlessOne wrote:
That is actually a good point, Belafon. I'll amend my statement to say that it is an equivalent option, considering that Arcane Gun still gives you a bonus to hit (or to spell DC) and better crit chance at the risk of an explosive mishap.

It's tricky to track down and separate exactly what you get.

-Arcane Gun does give you a bonus to hit, but so does Ranged Spellstrike. Both use the enhancement bonus of the gun when making the attack.
-Arcane Gun gives you a bonus to spell DC equal to the gun's enhancement bonus. Ranged Spellstrike does not.
-Ranged Spellstrike (might) give you a better chance to crit, but Arcane Gun (might) give you a bigger multiplier when you do crit. Ranged Spellstrike's crit chance is the crit chance of the weapon, while Arcane Gun only crits on a natural 20 unless you happen to have taken Improved Critical in the specific spell you are casting. If you chose only one gun with your Arcane Gun ability the spell crit multiplier is x3 while Ranged Spellstrike is limited to x2.

Quote:
Its a personal opinion, though. I tend to avoid options that have a good chance to blow up in my face.

I personally don't see the chance as greatly increased. Your gun can misfire whether you are using the Arcane Gun or Ranged Spellstrike ability. If your gun gets broken, you clear it rather than risking an explosion. (You are going to want the Amateur Gunslinger: Quick Clear feat no matter what.) The only real increased danger with Arcane Gun is if you throw a cone or line that hits a whole bunch of targets and more than one of them happen to roll a natural 20 on the save.

One thing I alluded to above is that Ranged Spell Combat only work with spells on the magus spell list. So if you do make this build you are likely going to want a very light dip into wizard and be mostly Eldritch Archer. And I'm not sure that wizard level is worth it. I'd probably take a single level dip into Gunslinger instead.

In general, I consider Spellslinger to be a fun and flavorful archetype. Perfectly fine to play but not one of the more "powerful" choices if that matters to someone.


Thank you guys for the clarification! My gm and I are able to sort everything out thanks to your responses

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