Should Handwraps of MIghty Blows have the Invested Trait?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

51 to 54 of 54 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Captain Morgan wrote:
And they get a lot of other loot they can use better: potions, bombs, shields...

Ah yes, potions and bombs. Two classes of items so useless players won't use them when their alchemist is giving them away for free. Shields are also debatable as you will want to build around using one and it isn't as if you're likely to be in situations where you randomly find yourself with a shield in one hand and then combat suddenly breaks out.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Captain Morgan wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

Until you need weapons of Cold Iron, Silver or Adamantine. Of course you might use Silversheen or Cold Iron Blanch, if they were not weapon-only that is.

And I forgot the Shifting rune, that you can put on Handwraps for no benefit while your weapon-using friends choose the best traits for their attacks all day long.

BTW, how often do you start an encounter without weapons drawn ? In my PFS experience, I would say maybe 10-15% of the time. So, not that great of an advantage really.

Special material weapons are really expensive to keep up with your runes. They are great if you have them when you need them, but they aren't exactly a standard assumption of the power budget. If you find a cold iron weapon it will usually come in handy, but not being able to use cool weapons you find is a legit drawback to unarmed or finesse builds. And they get a lot of other loot they can use better: potions, bombs, shields...

Shifting is neat, but by level 8 it is competing with constant damage buffs like flaming. I wouldn't prioritize it unless you needed to smuggle weapons in somewhere, which is a non-issue for unarmed builds.

Yes, you usually can start fights with your weapons drawn... But not always. You also may need to drop a hand or two off a weapon when you are knocked out, when you drink a potion, when you need to open a door... Start of combat is probably the least interesting example.

When you are knocked out, you drop out of rage. Bye bye unarmed attacks.


The Raven Black wrote:


When you are knocked out, you drop out of rage. Bye bye unarmed attacks.

Yeah, that's a legit downside, though one you can compensate for with ancestry feats or second wind. You also still retain your bonuses to basic fist strikes, albeit with lower damage. But the good news is you've got a free hand to use a shield and better AC than other barbarians, so you're less likely to go down.

Quote:
Ah yes, potions and bombs. Two classes of items so useless players won't use them when their alchemist is giving them away for free.

I said potions, not elixirs. Potions are magical and include indisputably good effects like haste, fly, invisibility, or healing. Bombs also do comparable damage to bows with debuffs and can trigger weakness. I don't know why anyone wouldn't throw the occasional bomb if they are given one, especially if they have quick draw.

And to be honest, even with elixirs, if your players aren't using them despite having them then your table lacks the system mastery for alchemy, because they can be quite good. (That's not a burn-- the system mastery needed to play an alchemist is my biggest criticism of the class.) To pick a relevant example, drakeheart mutagens give animal barbarians absurd AC-- often the best in the game, in fact. the save penalties suck, but plenty of beasties just don't attack saves.

Quote:
Shields are also debatable as you will want to build around using one

The majority of magic shields (everything but sturdy, really) aren't actually meant to be used on dedicated shield builds. You either let them block a few hits so they use their rider effect (forgewarden) and then drop them, or you don't block with them at all and just enjoy raised bonuses (spellguard.)

Quote:
and it isn't as if you're likely to be in situations where you randomly find yourself with a shield in one hand and then combat suddenly breaks out.

That's like saying: "it isn't as if you're likely to be in situations where you randomly find yourself wearing armor and then combat suddenly breaks out."

If you have a good shield, you're gonna carry it around dangerous situations, much like the weapons Raven and I already discussed. Heck, you're more likely to keep the shield on hand if you're in town or whatever, as it isn't the same as keeping a sword drawn. There's actually a pretty small number of situations where you can't have the shield handy outside of sleeping. Well, I suppose technically there are a lot of situations (eating, juggling, weaving a basket) but they aren't very likely to be occurring at the start of combat.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
nick1wasd wrote:
My main question will all of this Investment talk is... How often do you actually run into the 10 item cap? I've had a few middling/highish level games (8-12) and the most invested items anyone got was 6. Sure at mega high levels (17+)you'll probably have all those taken up, maybe, but if you pick up stances/attacks with a maneuver trait, you can skip out on a skill item to boost athletics unless you plan on using a maneuver that isn't found on your attack's trait list. What would it really change if they made Handwarps unique in not needing investment? Not much in my experience (which is limited to < level 12 play, to be fair)

10 Invested items was fine for my AoA Rogue, as I had 6 'core' items (including Doubling Rings), 2 'really nice to have' items, and a variety of choices for the last couple of slots that I could easily do without (https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43hc5?Incredible-Investiture-Opinions#20).

Having to invest the handwraps should really be a non-issue on a practical level...

51 to 54 of 54 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / General Discussion / Should Handwraps of MIghty Blows have the Invested Trait? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.