The closest language bearing on this is:
To select a piece of equipment as one of your gear array’s major or minor forms, its level must be equal to or lower than your nanocyte level.
Is "select" just to learn it, or also to select it as something to create/manifest? I assume manifold array's level reductions are supposed to actually do something, so I'm going to interpret it both ways - you can't learn a form higher level than your nanocyte level, and you can't create something higher level than your effective level, adjusted by manifold array.
So if you want your best weapon out, use it as your primary array.
No, this limitation does not exist. No where does it suggest it (it only mentions selection, which occurs separate to using the array) & otherwise you're innately screwed from how you can easily not have any major forms that are 4 levels below your level, let alone 8 because of how you replace them with higher level ones as you level.
Going with that interpretation is less 'if you want your best weapon out, have it primary' and becomes closer to 'may as well give up on major forms entirely if it isn't primary, you aren't going to have anything relevant in level to the situation'.
Since they got rid of investment, that may very well be intended. Want a free weapon? Pay a non credit price or keep a lower level weapon known when you advance to level 7 and it first becomes an option. You get the same WBL as everyone else, buy or loot weapon if it’s a problem.
Your interpretation makes any choice of gear as secondary or tertiary array suffer no penalty at all. Why didn’t they say “except gear array” in the manifold array text?
Your interpretation makes any choice of gear as secondary or tertiary array suffer no penalty at all. Why didn’t they say “except gear array” in the manifold array text?
Because it's a general statement that remains true and keeps wordcount down, it's just not relevant to the portion of it. 'For the effects, your level is lower' doesn't interact because selection is not part of the effect of you forming the array.
As is I feel this allows the cheese it seems to allow. No wordage was added to prevent max level gear as a tertiary despite this being pointed out in the playtest.
It seems this would imply this interaction is in fact intentional given it was already acknowledged and ignored.
That or the class is in for an errata right after the book prints lol...
Maybe a wider proofing system would help catch stuff like this sooner given the recent influx of errata due immediately post publication? *Wink wink*
I have come back to this time and time again this wording on the manafold makes it so strange SURE I choose gear and now im out of gear thats 4 levels lower then me ...UNLESS i chose a cybernetic but like ........for what reason now would i need that as a one off .......I want to use 2 gear arrays how does that work together now
or i want cloud as my main and gear as second now what do i pick out ....i agree this need more clarification on just how this ability works out
Well, by the time you reach the multiple Manifold, you have 4 main Forms. You start with 2 and can upgrade one as you go along, there is bound to be some lag behind with some. The other thing to consider is, if you didn't leave a low level form available, knowing its something you may want to do, then you basically shot yourself in the foot there. My Nanocyte has a level 4 (Maybe 3) Cybernetic and 3 weapons at level at 5,6 and 7.
I think its all about what you as a player pick and choose to do, the specific build you want. It's not going to cripple the character if you leave one of your forms at a low level, then a second at a mid level by the time you have access to a third.
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I agree that it's not very clear whether manifold array limits the maximum item level of weapon you can manifest as a gear array.
I can see an argument that the effective level reduction of manifold array should apply to the maximum item level of weapon you manifest, but I also agree with Milo v3 that this interpretation essentially makes it so you can't use gear array to form a weapon, because weapon damage is bounded by your level and having a weapon that is significantly lower item level is not going to be helpful. (Would having a lower-level cybernetic augmentation be helpful? Maybe? But weapon certainly wouldn't.) It also creates an option trap where you basically have to keep lower-level weapon and augmentation options to not lock yourself out of being able to use one of your class features.
I think this could use an FAQ clarification, but in the meantime it should probably be ruled in favor of player fun.
Of course you can have a weapon, you just have a smaller cloud or less skill bonus/temp HP from your sheathe.
What the hell were you doing your first six levels?! Carrying a weapon so you could use your cloud or r sheath and treating gear as a situational backup. Nothing changes with manifold.
You realize we are talking about having your weapon in secondary or tertiary?
Yes. I agree that's usually a bad idea, but that doesn't mean it's not an option. You're a fool if you don't have a normal weapon, so having a secondary or tertiary weapon too weak to be of use isn't actually a problem. Use a cyber augmentation or sheath plus one or two clouds.
Or if you want a maximally effective weapon, use it as primary, just as you have to use primary for a maximally effective cloud or sheath.
What is the point in bringing weapons that wont keep up? Especially if you already have a normal weapon along with you, that just means you have 0 reason to ever use secondary/tertiary gear array on weapons. Since 'random weapon you pick up from enemies after any fight' will be better than anything you can make.
Well it feels to me that the level restriction will effect the gear array weapon/cybernetic/tat you can summon, mostly because of balance.
Why would I summon a low level weapon? I probably wouldn't but that isn't the be all of the ability. The fact that I can now have both my rope or hover chair out while still maintaining my weapon is still a good thing.
So what's the point in having Gear array be able to summon a low level weapon if no one will use it? Quite simply if you could only summon a weapon with your primary array, people would complain. A weapon at 4 levels lower isn't game breaking, its just you prefer to have an extra skill bonus or cloud effect, and depending on your build, that's fine. The -8, well yeah that's a large difference but its your choice if you want to use it. Mine is a Kasatha, Str of 10 because I am all about moving and shooting. My Bulk is not very high. So carrying extra tat I don't use use is going to be common, so using my secondary or tertiary to summon a back up weapon/Melee weapon is within my scope.
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I feel like it's worth mentioning that the ability is written with the assumption that you'll have an item of your level in your highest slot, and then each further slot will be 1 level lower.
So at level 7, when you get manifold your major forms would be: 7th level, 6th level, 5th level, and 4th level. While the highest level major form you'd be able to construct would be a 3rd level item under that interpretation. A weapon 4 levels lower is not just pointless/useless (since any random weapon you pick up from your first fight will be better for effectively free, so it isn't really valid as even a backup weapon), it also... just flat doesn't work for some levels if you follow the 'building characters after first level' advice.
Even with minor forms if you keep some low level on purpose, you end up with items that are so outdated that you could just effortlessly buy them because of their level, given how expontential wealth is in Starfinder.
I don't see 2d6 over a D10 game breaking. You aren't always going to get a decent weapon for every damage type at every level. Yes, its inferior, but not useless. Lit takes 5 levels for a longarm to match the range of a Laser rifle. if I prefer to be a couple steps outside of an enemies range or outside its charge range, having a slightly lower damage is better for that character.
I am not saying your play style is wrong, if you prefer to max out damage out put, sure, upgrade your gun to what ever has the best die available. If I prefer an exotic damage type or range then thats also a valid choice.
As I mentioned in a previous post, if you think you will use a weapon as a secondary then there is no real harm in keeping one of your 4 choices at that level.
My Nanocyte has 2 guns as major forms, a Laser rifle for when I want to be at long range and a plasma for closer engagements. I hit another level, nothing says I have to drop the Laser rifle for a weapon with inferior range, or change my Plasma for inferior damage. I can chose to not upgrade those items. Just because it can be done with the leap frog effect, doesn't mean I have to.
As for minor items, some of the lower level ones are still valid at later levels, also the ability to generate 5 bulk of Rope is not something I can do with credits if the Nanocyte can't carry that rope along with the rest of his gear
It's weird to think that at level 6 you can only have a max level weapon, a max level cloud, or a max level sheath, and then at 7 you can have a max level sheath or cloud plus a max level weapon, but if you want both a cloud and sheath, or two clouds, one does take a penalty.