I'm DM-ing for a group that recently started with the Abomination Vaults, Ruins of Gauntlight. Everyone's very exited and we're already having great fun!
Our group consists of several players who really enjoy the story and roleplay, whilst others in the group mostly enjoy optimizing and min-maxing.
Sometime soon our party will be reachting 2nd level. Included in the AP is a special archetype, the Ghost Hunter. It would really suit the background-story of several of the players.
I've been toying with the idea of rewarding one/some of the players with the Ghost Hunter Archetype for free, because it really fits their stories and they've shown a genuine interest in the archetype. However I would not like to make the GH free for all, because then there would be no reason to not take the GH - especially for the min-maxers. The min-maxers have not shown any interest in the GH (yet), because it might be suboptimal considering their other options.
My initial plan was to drop the info about the GH in our group and ask the players to contact me if they are interested. If they contact me and are interested, I let them take it for free.
But by doing it this way it might disbalance the party in terms of 'power', because some players would get feats for free. Also (and I can't stress this enough) it is not my intention to punish the min-maxers or anything, the game should be fair and fun for everyone.
Any suggestions? Is it unfair to do it this way? Or are there other options to reward the other players and ' balance the power'? I'm open to all suggestions :-)
I would give the free archetype to players who deserve it because of their RP and let the door open for other players to later get a free archetype they want if they RP it well.
This might be a way to involve all players in more RP.
Good suggestion, thanks!
I think I'll do this. I've read ahead and
I gave my players in this one the Free Archetype option, then pointed out the Ghost Hunter AT, and said "This will be useful and provide some interesting opportunities."
Then they all ignored my advice and picked other things.
So, players gonna player.
Haha. I could easily see that happening here as well.
Did you limit their options (regarding what Free Archetypes) they could pick?
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Except maybe for Rare (case by case basis really), I would leave everything open. Because, as a player, I would hate to have my fun concept killed from the start, or be the topic of heated arguments with the GM so that they agree with my ideas, while the other players freely enjoy theirs.
That said, if there is an archetype you despise, just warn the players beforehand and things should go well.
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Great advice, thanks!
I don't intend to block certain archetype choices, as long as it makes sense from a story/background perspective. Just to avoid the min-maxing chery-picking of taking obscure archetypes just for synergy/optimizing.
Also, I'll leave out the multiclass archetypes in the Free Archetype-offer.
I'm running AV with three players using free archetypes and a level boost, it seems to be working.
I wouldn't give it to some and not others. Let the min maxers min max and the rpers rp. Let everyone have some fun rather than force things on them. It might not be your intention to punish some players, but that what it is at the end of the day.
I just let everyone have whatever they want, though I did make suggestions. We have an oracle with blessed one, an investigator with ghost hunter and a fighter with marshal. I also tweaked the ghost hunter/inherent spells rule so they now work of the characters highest mental stat instead of just charisma. Personally I think the rules in PF2 are robust enough that min maxing doesn't get problematic the way it could in PF1. Also when it comes to encounters, the action economy plays the bigger part than having a free archetype.
A good approach could be to select archetypes for each player based on what you think the player would like, that works well with the character and synergises with the group.
I don't intend to block certain archetype choices, as long as it makes sense from a story/background perspective. Just to avoid the min-maxing chery-picking of taking obscure archetypes just for synergy/optimizing.
Good luck with that. /s
OK, it might work for you, I don't know your players, but if you've opened up the Pandora's box of free archetypes (aka 'the revenge of the grumpy PF1 munchkin') I suspect you will be fighting an uphill battle against more and more convoluted and far-fetched background explanations from your min-maxy players.I allowed background Traits in our PF1 group, as a way for my players to add to their PC's backgrounds mechanically, but it quickly turned into a bonus with no or very weak connection to the character backstory/personality. Most casters were bullied as kids (Reactionary) regardless if they were in their story or not, and very often melees were "born in a region where their faith was not popular" (Indomitable Fait), and so on. So I took them out, since IMV it was a story-enhancing feature that too often went totally against the story.
Free Archetypes are in my view similar (no, not the same, similar). If they are free, everyone will take one, and the min-maxers will be very tempted to take one that's "optimal" - regardless of what it says on the tin. "My paladin has this cool archetype that gives a +0,43 bonus on X. What it's called? Uhhm Demon Snogger."
So, my 2 cents: if you give them for free, let the min-maxers min-max how they want, or just let people buy them as in core. But of course, YMMV.
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I took your advice to heart and decided to give all the players a free archetype.
I asked them to consider how the archetype would fit their backstories and luckily they all picked one that fit rather well.
The most 'min-maxy-player' plays a Monk and he opted for the Acrobat, a good choice imo. And luckily someone picked the Ghost Hunter as well!
My players just hit level two, and I was planning on giving all of them Ghost Hunter as a free archetype.
Only the wizard and witch actually meet the prerequisites, but I was thinking of just handwaving that away for the two rogues and fighter, and just seeing what they do with it.
Any issues I'm not seeing here?
My players just hit level two, and I was planning on giving all of them Ghost Hunter as a free archetype.
Only the wizard and witch actually meet the prerequisites, but I was thinking of just handwaving that away for the two rogues and fighter, and just seeing what they do with it.
Any issues I'm not seeing here?
Nah, I think you're good. It doesn't really impact the balance/difficulty that much, imo. And as long as you give it to all the players they're all equal in that regard.