Laser weapons and force fields

[Belafon]

Somehow didn't notice this before now:

CRB v3.0 page 184 wrote:

Barriers of energy or magical force block lasers.

CRB v3.0 page 206 wrote:

The force field blocks solids and liquids but not gases or light (including laser beams).

So, that's definitely a contradiction.

[Darg727]

Not really. It isn't ever described as a barrier, made of energy, or made of magical force. Barriers (other than the description of AC) prevent movement and/or line of effect.

[Belafon]

Darg727 wrote:

Not really. It isn't ever described as a barrier, made of energy, or made of magical force.

CRB page 265 wrote:

...This includes all energy fields that impact the physical world (such as force fields that grant temporary Hit Points...

Darg727 wrote:

Barriers (other than the description of AC) prevent movement and/or line of effect.

There's no game mechanics definition of "barrier." Armor Class, Starship shields, abjuration spells, and plain old walls all include the word "barrier" in their description. It's not that your definition of barrier isn't a reasonable one, it's that it is not all-inclusive.

I really don't want to start an argument about whether we should use dictionary definition 2 or 4 of "barrier" to analyze the interactions of a force field and a laser. That's the kind of argument that came to dominate PF1. I'm just going to mark it for a FAQ and leave it at that.

[Wesrolter]

I think its more of an exception to the rule rather then a contradiction.
Like all mammals give birth to live young... except for the Platypus..

[Darg727]

Belafon wrote:

Darg727 wrote:

Not really. It isn't ever described as a barrier, made of energy, or made of magical force.

CRB page 265 wrote:

...This includes all energy fields that impact the physical world (such as force fields that grant temporary Hit Points...

Darg727 wrote:

Barriers (other than the description of AC) prevent movement and/or line of effect.

There's no game mechanics definition of "barrier." Armor Class, Starship shields, abjuration spells, and plain old walls all include the word "barrier" in their description. It's not that your definition of barrier isn't a reasonable one, it's that it is not all-inclusive.

I really don't want to start an argument about whether we should use dictionary definition 2 or 4 of "barrier" to analyze the interactions of a force field and a laser. That's the kind of argument that came to dominate PF1. I'm just going to mark it for a FAQ and leave it at that.

Force field is an energy field, but it isn't an energy barrier.

CRB, pg 184 wrote:

These beams can pass through glass and other transparent physical barriers, dealing damage to such barriers as they pass through. Barriers of energy or magical force block lasers.

I think we don't have to do any dictionary lawyering when the description gives a pretty identifiable picture as to what kind of barrier it is talking about. What are the barrier properties of glass? Now apply them to energy and magical force ones. Force Field does not check the boxes that glass does as a barrier.

[Nefreet]

I think Darg is correct. You can have mobile forcefield defenses, like a Mechanic's Energy Shield, and you can have immobile forcefield barriers, like Wall of Force.

Some may require GM adjudication, and hard-to-interpret outliers might benefit from errata, but for the most part, you can probably intuit which is which.

[Metaphysician]

I think the simpler way to handle this particular rule is:

"Would interpreting it this way mean that a particular type of weapon would ignore the obviously-intended defensive effect of Provides Temp HP? If yes, then its the wrong interpretation. You don't get to bypass a force field's primary mechanical effect on anything less than unambiguous statements to that effect." Its no different than "this armor is narratively described as only covering part of the body, no, this doesn't mean you can ignore its AC bonus by doing a called shot".

[Darg727]

Except Force Field gives a specific exception to laser beams. You still get your AC, you just won't be able to rely on your force field temp HP to protect you from laser beams.

[caribet]

isn't the usual interpretation (in stories) that light goes through transparent and invisible things;
lasers are lights, so they go through transparent and invisible things.

Most forcefields are transparent invisible effects. These let lasers through.
There are also some things which are barriers, which have the force quality. If such barriers are opaque, they block light and lasers. (Force or not force).

So I'd say - you lose AC from invisible barriers, but keep the Temp HP 'cos they accumulate on you somehow.