What interactions wild shape have between some other classes?

[SH3R4TA5]

I have some confusions with the way wild shape with with other classes feats, this is some understanding i have:

You could wild shape while in rage? It seems like yes, but it is hard for me to see if the damage of the rage, or any of the benefits of it, would apply to the new unarmed attacks because how some statistics are replaced, also the line for polymorph says: "the special statistics can be adjusted only by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties".

Now another thing that make me confused is the line for the attacks "which are the only attacks you can use", this means that you can't use things like the monk stances that grant new strikes,but also the animal instinct new natural weapon, the polymorph and morph tags don't put limits for each other on a strict way, so a DM could allow some possibility of interaction, but that line forbid it.

Finally i wonder what limits there are to use actions with the natural attack, can it use flurry of blows? Furious finish? Which ones work and how to tell? (Maybe it can't have the "wield a weapon" requirement?).

How this interactions work? And what options could make the wild shape work better? If someone can answer this doubts i have i would be thankful.

[breithauptclan]

Which Rage?

Animal Instinct Rage gains the Morph trait. Since Wild Shape has the Polymorph trait it would not be much of a stretch to rule that they are not compatible. The Morph trait allows for that - especially if the two changes are incompatible.

Giant Instinct: it would be hard to continue using your oversized weapon while in Wild Shape.

Superstition Instict probably wouldn't work at all since Wild Shape is a spell.

The rest would probably work fine. They add damage to your existing damage. It doesn't matter that your normal strike damage has been replaced with unarmed attacks from Wild Shape.

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As for other interactions with Wild Shape, it depends on exactly what you are trying to interact with. Animal Form (which is what Wild Shape is using) prevents using other attacks. So certainly anything that is requiring a weapon or a specific other attack (like the monk stances) isn't going to work.

It can also be ruled that the 'attack' referenced by Animal Form means specifically the 'Strike' action - which because of the way subordinate actions work would prevent using things like Flurry of Blows and Furious Finish.

However, that is ambiguous and it can also be ruled that the 'attack' in Animal Form simply means that you can't use other weapons, unarmed attacks, spells, and such - but as long as the unarmed attack from Animal Form is all that is dealing damage, then any feats and abilities you have that allow you to make attacks and can use the unarmed attack from Animal Form will work just fine.

That is something that you and your table will have to discuss and decide.

[Gortle]

Its a mess; which are the only attacks you can use techncally stops most everything including simple uses of athletics to Shove or Escape. There is a high degree of agreement in this forum that this is unintended and should be ignored.

Recommended you ignore it and instead interpret it to mean that you can't use any weapons or any other unarmed attack type aside from those mentioned in the battleform spell.

Setting aside Supertition, Giant and Animal that are just incompatible; rage damage is additional damage which probably adds to your battle form. Note that most battle form spells give out temporary hit points just like rage - only the higher amount will apply.

A Barbarian Wildshape Druid has got conflicts and mechanical issues. Not the least being the action cost to wildshape and then rage.

There are a lot of rules problems with martial wildshapers but they are strong. See long discussion here.

[Ravingdork]

Per the Rage action, you cannot use actions with the Concentrate trait when raging, unless they also have the Rage trait.

You cannot cast wild shape when raging, since that focus spell has a verbal component. Verbal components apply the Concentrate trait to the spell, which makes casting most spells impossible when raging.

You could cast wild shape and then rage, but then you cannot end the polymorph effect, since ending the effect is in itself an action with the Concentrate trait.

I hope that helps.

[Gortle]

Ravingdork wrote:

You cannot wild shape when raging, since wild shape has a verbal component, which means the Cast a Spell action to use it has the Concentrate trait.

You could cast wild shape and then rage, but then you cannot end polymorph, since ending the effect is in itself an action with the Concentrate trait.

Yes important. Fortunately both of them typically only last for a minute anyway so that is normally OK.

Honestly its a combination I've never seen tried.

[Ravingdork]

Gortle wrote:

Fortunately, both of them typically only last for a minute anyway so that is normally okay.

Honestly, it's a combination I've never seen tried.

Yeah, I happen to know about it because I'm our group's resident "rules lawyer," and we happen to have a player who will be playing a druid/barbarian in our upcoming Fists of the Ruby Pheonix campaign. The GM asked me to do a "rules deep dive" so that he would know what to expect with such a character.

[Ubertron_X]

Ravingdork wrote:

Per the Rage action, you cannot use actions with the Concentrate trait when raging, unless they also have the Rage trait.

You cannot cast wild shape when raging, since that focus spell has a verbal component. Verbal components apply the Concentrate trait to the spell, which makes casting most spells impossible when raging.

You could cast wild shape and then rage, but then you cannot end the polymorph effect, since ending the effect is in itself an action with the Concentrate trait.

I hope that helps.

Moment of Clarity helps with both casting spells and ending effects prematurely despite already raging.

[SH3R4TA5]

Thanks guys for the considerations you made me notice, particularly that documents you provided Gortle, there is a lot of things that need to be addressed, but i think i can make some deductions on my own.

Thanks to all that added to this.