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Stats
at 1:
Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha => 18/14/14/10/12/10
at 20:
Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha => 22/20/20/10/18/12
Race: Human/beastkin (imprecise smell) Background: bounty hunter Class: barbarian, animal instinct
Skills Legendary: athletics, acrobatics, stealth, survival
Trained: lore, medicine, nature(at 9)
Feats and skills by level:
1. sudent charge(retrain to acute vision), deer animal selection
2. acrobat dedication/ quick jump
3. fleet
4. raging athlete/cat fall
5. general training (shield block)
6. powerful leap/ animal skin
7. titan wrestler
8. Attack of Oportunity/kip up
9. multitalented (monk)
10. monk's flurry/swift sneak
11. toughness
12. foil senses/ predator’s pounce
13. advanced general training (die hard)
14. quick climber/whirlwind strike
15. canny acumen: Reflex
16. cloud jump/silencing strike
17. Numb to death
18. Legendary sneak/brutal critical
19. Legendary guide
20. unstoppable juggernaut
Thought process:
The idea of the character is to be a Strepsirrhini primate (lemur like) hybrid, animals that are great at jumping, and have an uncanny sense of smell; she is meant to be skilled on tracking, stalking and taking down targets with the aggressive attitude of a honey badger, the deer selection is to re-flavour it as a spear like tail similar to the “Magnamalo” from "Monster hunter Rise".
Skill raising was meant to assist the concept of the beast, while the acrobat dedication was taken to aid the balancing on branches and similar (cat fall and kip up are some add on for a nimble creature to make use of the acrobatics progression), but since that is the only use maybe I’m underusing the feat. Sneak is to gain some position advantage in some cases (or rescue someone captive/finda and eliminate a key enemy if a frontal fight is too dumb, while aiding the stalker side of the character) and initiative boost if it can be used for it, maybe there is more to it but I dont know it yet.
No intimidation because of the stat selection, inspired on cats, apes and badgers from the bestiary, so I’m unsure if the lack of demoralizing is significant, apes do have intimidation and it could be a good way to reflect the inner badger of the character, but not sure if the drop on wisdom is good idea (being good with its senses to track criminals and kidnapers is important and is more important for this char to let the screaming to the preys).
Beastkin is great for the appearance and the senses… but the feats are not good, even some of them have problems to add to the barbarian! The transformation feats don’t add anything to the barbarian, not only have minor clash with the character idea, but it doesn’t even allow to use the rage weapon nor rage damage, so that is awful in its own right, Animal swiftness feels interesting, but climbing is already achieved from lvl 15 with quick climb or 4 with raging athlete, and I’m unsure that is worth for 5ft of speed (that is me being new to the system speaking, if someone know something that I’m missing, feel free to tell me).
If someone have ideas to correct in the build (maybe bad order of what level I’m getting each thing) feel free to tell me, and thanks in advance.
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A 10 or 12 Charisma isn't great for using intimidation, but it shouldn't be terrible either. As long as you get training and some feat support for it. You will probably at least need Raging Indimidation so that you can demoralize while raging. Intimidating Prowess would be a nice-to-have, but not required. Demoralize would end up being a backup option that you keep on hand, rather than a primary thing that you do. Much like how you were describing your stealth options.
You will need to talk to your GM about allowing Beastkin Change Shape to work with Animal Instinct Rage. Change Shape has 'polymorph' trait, but Rage only has 'morph'. Change shape gives you a bite attack, so it could be seen to conflict with any animal instincts that also give a bite attack. Deer Animal Instinct only gives the antler attack though, so those don't explicitly conflict. A permissive GM like me would allow it.
With that allowed, you would generally be using Change Shape outside of combat and Rage while in combat - in which ever form you happened to be in.
Similarly with several of the other Beastkin feats. They can add a lot of utility and similar theme for the character without having to dip in to Rage to get it. You probably want to avoid Critter Shape since pest form doesn't fit the character much. Animal Shape would be nice though. You could fully transform into your animal form without having to use Animal Rage, meaning that you can use it outside of combat.
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My main issues with this build is a lack of things to do when you are facing a multiple attack penalty of 10. So minimum I would be looking at assurance with athletics for that trip or grab attempt.
There may be some other feat support you can get for those manners too.
Of you are prepared to delay some of your Dexterity increases - there are limits as to what you can get with your AC in Animal Skin - so dex is really just reflex saves and ranged attacks
An 18 is probably enough. Then put a bit more into Charisma and use demoralise. It really does give you an extra option. Frightened will help all those flurried attacks to have a better chance to got.
considering that suggestions from breithauptclan and Gortle im doing some changes, what about this?
Stats at 20
Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha => 22/18/20/12/18/14
1. sudent charge(retrain to raging intimidation at 12), deer animal selection
2. acrobat dedication/ quick jump
3. fleet
4. raging athlete/cat fall
5. general training (toughness)
6. powerful leap/ animal skin
7. titan wrestler
8. Attack of Oportunity/kip up
9. multitalented (monk)
10. monk's flurry/wall jump
11. Intimidating Prowess
12. terrifying resistance/ predator’s pounce
13. advanced general training (battle cry)
14. quick climber/whirlwind strike
15. canny acumen: Reflex
16. cloud jump/silencing strike
17. die hard (or battle cry?)
18. Legendary guide/brutal critical
19. numb to death (die hard)
20. unstoppable juggernaut
This swaps the skill priority for legendary rank to Athletics>survival>intimidation, and leaving sneak to trained, leave out the shield block for the reaction to be used for aid actions, opportunity attacks and battlecry if used, intimidation is worked from the point flurry of blows is unlocked and giving more freedom of actions, while keeping the survival to be a tracker as intended.
Not a fan of losing the dark vision on rage, the Strepsirrhini are nocturnal animals and only in the old ages they were diurnal, it is possible, just like a tracking hound doesn’t need other senses than his smelling to do great work, but not sure how bad it is (Little edit, the smelling sense is a MUST, the species are known for their great sense of smell).
Since we are reaching legendary for intimidation (alas little late) battle cry is an idea to embrace the more war maiden side of this, but is it ok to delay diehard and discard numb to death? it could be life-saving, and that feats have synergy with unstoppable juggernaut, but they are passive defences vs a more active for of damage mitigation: killing the enemies first, so maybe is better?
SH3R4TA5 wrote: considering that suggestions from breithauptclan and Gortle im doing some changes, what about this?
Stats at 20
Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha => 22/18/20/12/18/14
1. sudent charge(retrain to raging intimidation at 12), deer animal selection
2. acrobat dedication/ quick jump
3. fleet
4. raging athlete/cat fall
5. general training (toughness)
6. powerful leap/ animal skin
7. titan wrestler
8. Attack of Oportunity/kip up
9. multitalented (monk)
10. monk's flurry/wall jump
11. Intimidating Prowess
12. terrifying resistance/ predator’s pounce
13. advanced general training (battle cry)
14. quick climber/whirlwind strike
15. canny acumen: Reflex
16. cloud jump/silencing strike
17. die hard (or battle cry?)
18. Legendary guide/brutal critical
19. numb to death (die hard)
20. unstoppable juggernaut
This swaps the skill priority for legendary rank to Athletics>survival>intimidation, and leaving sneak to trained, leave out the shield block for the reaction to be used for aid actions, opportunity attacks and battlecry if used, intimidation is worked from the point flurry of blows is unlocked and giving more freedom of actions, while keeping the survival to be a tracker as intended.
Not a fan of losing the dark vision on rage, the Strepsirrhini are nocturnal animals and only in the old ages they were diurnal, it is possible, just like a tracking hound doesn’t need other senses than his smelling to do great work, but not sure how bad it is (Little edit, the smelling sense is a MUST, the species are known for their great sense of smell).
Since we are reaching legendary for intimidation (alas little late) battle cry is an idea to embrace the more war maiden side of this, but is it ok to delay diehard and discard numb to death? it could be life-saving, and that feats have synergy with unstoppable juggernaut, but they are passive defences vs a more active for of damage mitigation: killing the enemies first, so maybe is better?
I think your original plan was good. I think you have a lot of options between moving, raising a shield and attack already. No need to go for intimidate if it isn't your concept.
I think you have a point citricking, the more i see it is more obvious the drawbacks of intimidate unless build specifically for it on a barbarian... A shield and the natural high AC of an animal instinct barbarian can make a world of a difference in defense, and i could make use of the help action, forcing an enemy into an impasse between an opportunity attack or a crit fail from an ally effect. Just unsure how to make good use of the stealth outside of initiative if posible (although a +2 if enabled is kinda good to make some good hits when it counts the most).
citricking wrote:
I think your original plan was good. I think you have a lot of options between moving, raising a shield and attack already. No need to go for intimidate if it isn't your concept.
Absolutely go with your plan if you want. Just be aware of what you are doing when you are attacking at -10.
Normal round is going to be move, flurry, raise shield. Fine but sometimes you won't need to move. Sometimes you will be hasted and have an extra action.
Trust me, you will want more options. Is the character for a single session or a longer campaign?
Help: that is the Aid action and its a reaction plus an action in your turn, yes sometimes it is worthwhile. But it is generally too weak an effect to use in combat apart from special situations.
Definitely swapping a little of the stat allocation, but do you have an opinion of what should be dropped in exchange Gortle? What would be the skill to remove in favour of intimidation and what feats would be taken down to support the build? That is my biggest problem, because at the end i can't have everything and since I'm so new to the system I'm unsure what would be ok to drop in favour of the tools without hurting the concept of a bounty hunter. Forgot to add, it's for a long journey.
You have a Dex cap of 16 while in Animal Skin. I'd probably take your DEX to 16 at level 4, but leave it there for the mid levels and improve Charisma and Wisdom instead. I'm not seeing that it warrants taking any ability score above 18 aside from STR, and maybe CON.
Honestly it depends on what the rest of you group is doing. Everything is a trade off. My recommendation is to make your ability scores reflect what you are doing most.
Attacking at -10 really isn't that bad though, it's something that you can do and is often a good choice vs debuffed or lower level targets. (It's not scare to death, but scare to death is op and should be needed)
Will start saying that the 3 action gameplay is quite good for flexibility... But when it come to the multiple attack penalty, it incentives you to make different actions that in most cases in unaware.
Is the only option a barbarian have to be intimidating? It could explain why they have raging intimidation, is quite good, but doesn't present an alternative to being loud and scary as far as I see. And you saying that the aid action is so weak i guess is not going to come from the untrained/featless options.
I will take your recommendation for the stats, the idea of 18 dex is to avoid a -2 ac drop when clumsy, but some other things can be more useful in the long run against a circunstancial problem.
I presented the other alternative as a discussion base option, is a lil rushed if I'm honest, but wanted to know what options arises from its presence. I assume you are not a fan of neither of them, but would like to know why. Maybe being sneaky is to ambitious and working it first could be an idea, but what about survival? Is it ok to delay it for a tracker?
You guys are giving me some options to think, and sadly I'm still confused (maybe this is why ppl don't jump to PF2e as fast as with 5e, that one is dumb as heck but far easier... But tbh i hate it's limitations) I don't demand anyone to help here, but if someone is still willing to give some pointers with more elaboration, I'm absolutely thankful for your assistance.
One thing to note is that clumsy doesn't affect dex. It just imposes a -1 status penalty to AC. So it doesn't matter what your dex is, clumsy will always impose the penalty even if your dex is above the cap.
nicholas storm wrote: One thing to note is that clumsy doesn't affect dex. It just imposes a -1 status penalty to AC. So it doesn't matter what your dex is, clumsy will always impose the penalty even if your dex is above the cap. Oh you are right, somehow I understood that it also reduced dexterity, thanks for that one nicholas.
Will end with 18 dexterity and 16 on charisma to make it more like a bruiser tracker than a stealth ops one, i think Gortle's idea do make better fit for the character itself, so i will tweak the build a little bit on my own and leave the stealth on trained only. Thanks for the recommendations everyone.
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