Potent Potions variant

[Zapp]

I have boosted healing potions.

The default healing potion is severely lacking in several regards:
1) it just provides so very little healing
2) it provides variable healing, so you can't know if it's going to help you
3) it takes an awful long time to adminster: one action to draw, one action to drink, and then likely a third action to reposition your hands on your gear correctly
4) it costs a lot (only 4 consumables for the price of one permanent item)

Of course 1, 2 and 3 mostly revolve around in-combat usage. After a fight, not so much. And 1+4 isn't terribly relevant if you find them as loot. But still, healing potions are borderline useless in any scenario where you have options.

So I created the "Potent potions" variant rule.

[u]Potent Potions[/u]
A) healing consumables restore 10 hit points per item level (no die rolling), ideally rounded up to a multiple of 10
B) if the consumable grants additional bonuses, it's 6 hp per item level
C) you can wear a "potion bandoleer" that allows you to draw and drink/administer a consumable as one single Interact action

Other parameters stay the same.

The end result is that a Minor Healing Potion now heals 10 hp and only requires one, not two, actions to drink. It still costs 4 gp. A Lesser Healing Potion, being level 3, heals 30 hp and so on.

An Elixir of Life provides an additional bonus (a bonus vs poison/disease) so it grants 6 hp/item level. A Moderate Elixir of Life for 150 gp is level 9, and since 9x6=54 I've upped it to a nice round 60 points of healing.

Here's a convenient link to the rules, including a table of all CRB healing potions and elixirs of life. It's from my gaming wiki:

https://mayra.miraheze.org/wiki/Potent_Potions

[Ascalaphus]

I'm on the fence about #3, because you're going on a slippery slope there with other consumables, do they also take fewer actions to use then, or are some potions faster than others? Also, playing something like a 1H weapon build and maybe using a buckler to keep a hand free and have this flexibility, is also a build choice.

I very much agree with #1 and #2.

I think #4 needs more thought on how to best structure. In particular, the cost/benefit ratio of low and high level potions; one of the cheesy things from PF1 we tried to get rid of was that L1 wands were just ridiculously cheaper than higher level healing wands.

I suppose on the one hand higher level potions are more action-efficient because when you need healing mid-combat you really need a lot all at once. But I think the design leans too much in that direction which means that out of combat it becomes silly much better to just chug low level potions. In your table, for the price of one greater healing potion (400gp, 120hp) I could buy 8 moderate ones which would be 480hp.

In the other discussion about healing in between encounters, even if you don't have a full 10m in between encounters, you often will have a minute or so. And in that minute you could get the same amount of healing for a quarter of the price if you used lower end potions. Which is just a bit out of tune.

[Loreguard]

What if when consuming healing potions, if the potion's max HP would be enough to fully heal the individual, allow it to have max effect. This gives a bit of an incentive to use consumables that produce healing close to the healing need.

Other options to make consumables more relevant, potentially would be to allow the conventional healing bolstering be reset if you consume a healing potion of at least half your level or higher. Thereby making a healing potion of close to on level in the pack a means of keeping a bad healing roll from ending someone's adventuring day.

Alternately if people feel that using a healing potion at the point that max healing heals you completely is ineffective, you might allow to have it have full effect as long as 2x max would heal them completely. [so if you use a level of healing appropriate that two applications maxed would heal you, you get maximum effect from it.

Another option would be as long as the healing items level is at least half the recipients level, the consumable could be allowed to have max effect. This would explicitly encourage higher level folks to carry more level appropriate healing potions. Low level ones might still be theoretically more monetarily efficient, but would be less so from a weight and action standpoint.

Another option, if you are wanting to specifically address action economy, perhaps you could invent chewable charm necklaces that could be priced to cost a bit more than a potion, but can be worn around the neck and can be activated as a single action using a hand, even if holding something.

Both of the above boost healing provided by consumables. If someone didn't want to boost, but make higher level healing potions more relevant, you could do the following.

Have potions of less that 1/2 the imbiber's level bolster that type of consumable from being used again for 10 minutes. (losing/wasting the potion seems rough, but perhaps one could make it so they can't down the potion (gagging, unable to use it, or potentially more complicated, but one delay its onset if it is forced down) That could make using numerous low level consumables no longer a simple potentially inexpensive replacement for other exploration healing activities for much higher level parties.

Honestly, I kind of wish that Potions somewhat specifically had limitations on how many could be used in given spans of time. Although I suppose that wouldn't resolve the potential economics of numerous low level healing scrolls. But that does at least require someone with some degree of casting ability to leverage it.

[Zapp]

Ascalaphus wrote:

I'm on the fence about #3, because you're going on a slippery slope there with other consumables, do they also take fewer actions to use then, or are some potions faster than others? Also, playing something like a 1H weapon build and maybe using a buckler to keep a hand free and have this flexibility, is also a build choice.

I very much agree with #1 and #2.

I think #4 needs more thought on how to best structure. In particular, the cost/benefit ratio of low and high level potions; one of the cheesy things from PF1 we tried to get rid of was that L1 wands were just ridiculously cheaper than higher level healing wands.

I suppose on the one hand higher level potions are more action-efficient because when you need healing mid-combat you really need a lot all at once. But I think the design leans too much in that direction which means that out of combat it becomes silly much better to just chug low level potions. In your table, for the price of one greater healing potion (400gp, 120hp) I could buy 8 moderate ones which would be 480hp.

In the other discussion about healing in between encounters, even if you don't have a full 10m in between encounters, you often will have a minute or so. And in that minute you could get the same amount of healing for a quarter of the price if you used lower end potions. Which is just a bit out of tune.

Thank you for your considered response.

As for #3, yes, if your players are able to ignore the fact that hand usage is directly connected to damage, you might be able to skip #3. But if your players ("you" as in everybody reading this) are anything like mine, it's inconcievable to forego the effectiveness of the builds that "use up" both your hands. Basically, the game does not offer hand-free builds enough. (In a different game, where everybody needs to hold a torch just to see, that is, getting darkvision or magical light spells is actually expensive build choices, it might be a different story)

So from my POV, I found it unreasonable to ask players to keep one hand free just to attain a reasonable action economy vs healing potions. To be blunt, the whole reason I created this variant was to encourage their use, and improving the action economy for the builds players actually build was key to this.

tl;dr: I don't need to cater to hand-free builds since I only see casters with hand-free builds. If hand-free builds see play time at your table you might well consider not introducing potion bandoleers (rule #3).

Edit: All potions fit a potion bandoleer in my variant. No slippery slope. If it is small enough to generously fit a potion-shaped container, feel free to allow it. Consumables are ridiculously expensive as is; anything that encourages characters to use them instead of selling them (=trading 8 consumables for 1 permanent item is a no-brainer of a good deal) is a good thing in my book.

As for 4#, your reasoning ignores Medicine. Yes, it is much more cost efficient to drink lots of low-level potions than few high-level potions once the action economy is not a factor (i.e. out of combat). But Treat Wounds is even cheaper (=it costs ZERO gold). So yes your argument would have been a factor in a different game, say a variant PF1 game. But in PF2, not so much: let them purchase as many low-level potions as they like to speed up healing from, say, 30 minutes to, say, 5 minutes. It doesn't matter - in fact, speeding up downtime rest between encounters is something I would consider a GOOD thing. That is, the fact some players might feel encouraged to do this is something to be considered more of a feature than a bug! :)

Again, if your campaign is tuned differently than mine, you might well have reason to tweak my proposal. Thanks for reading!

[Zapp]

Loreguard wrote:

What if when consuming healing potions, if the potion's max HP would be enough to fully heal the individual, allow it to have max effect.

It seems you agree the rulebook healing potions are too weak, too slow and too variable to see much use!

Other than that, I couldn't find any direct comments on "Potent Potions" for me to respond to. (Do get back to me if I missed something)