Assuming there isn't a 3rd option, what chassis would give off a better vibe of a novice Mage?


Advice

Silver Crusade

The choices I've boiled it down to are the sage sorcerer and the exploiter wizard.

The sage sorcerer is very limited in what spells they can cast and the sorcerer imo is arguably the weakest of the 9th level casters anyway, so its limitations would make for a good vibe.

As for the Exploiter Wizard, in my opinion the arcanist is everything the wizard should have been, and considering the exploiter wizard only gets exploits once every 4 levels instead of once every 2, you could definitely make the argument that they are a bit rough around the edges in terms of mastery.

Dark Archive

adept.

maybe bard


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I think you could play an Eldritch Scoundrel as an amateur wizard who tries to get by as much by his wits and plucky gumption as his limited casting abilities.

But for the most part, PC classes tend to be good at something, and to be a novice mage generally a class to be good at something else such as weapons (e.g., Child of Aracna and Amaznen or maybe a magus) etc.


Kineticist is a fun way to play someone who can only get the hang of a couple of spells but is really good at them. Aether kineticist as a wizard school drop out who only learned mage hand, but is really good at it, is a character I'd like to play some time.

An item mastery focused fighter build also works pretty well. You have a handful of spells available, but you always need a relatively potent spell focus to do anything.


Witch would be not too shabby. Their unconventional Arcane spell list would be thematically appropriate for somebody who didn't get a shot at formal magic training. The Ley Line Guardian archetype is even a spontaneous caster (but still Intelligence-based), with only a few spells known but the ability to keep casting them more times (and dispenses with the Spell Storage Familiar).

I also vote for Eldritch Scoundrel and Magus, depending upon just what kind of environment the would-be mage had to survive in while growing up
Also depending upon environment, Psychic is another option (also Intelligence-based but spontaneous, and the Occult spellcasting and weird spell list reflects somebody who never got the normal Arcane spellcasting training and had to improvise it, especially in a disapproving but physically not too harsh environment).

Grand Lodge

A novice is a level and not a class.
A level 15 Sage Sorcerer or Exploiter wizard will never be novice’s IMO.
And those archtypes does not meet my vision of a novice spellcaster either. Adept is a much better choice.


^But they will reflect somebody who had to start out as a novice and work their way up with no help, which is what I think the original poster meant.

Now if you want somebody that stays a novice, use normal Rogue with the Minor Magic and Major Magic Rogue Talents (and preferably the Bookish Rogue feat).


UnArcaneElection wrote:
^But they will reflect somebody who had to start out as a novice and work their way up with no help, which is what I think the original poster meant.

Yeah, but the Wizard class covers that :)

Level 1 = Novice

[Insert Self-Directed Learning here]

Level 20 = Not Novice


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I've looked at this thread and the cleric thread. Something that I haven't seen suggested and that may help is the idea of starting out at higher level but using NPC classes and then re-training out of them.

The idea that an oracle or bard is an 'inexperienced' cleric or wizard is hard for me to imagine. Especially since that as they level up and gain experience they will be becoming MORE like an Oracle or Bard instead of MORE like a cleric or wizard.

If I was trying to do this as role playing backed up by mechanics I would think starting as a commoner4/wizard (generalist)1 would give me the idea. I have been around the community for a while. I have grown up here and have a job, family, and friends. I know people and have a back story. I'm also way tougher than a 1st level wizard. I have more HP, skills, and better attack rolls. I have marginally better saving throws.

But throughout all that time I was working at the tavern or as a clerk in the herbalist's shop, I was also secretly studying my book. It's taken years but I finally started figuring it all out... just in time for the adventure to happen!

Now as I level up I use the retraining rules to replace the commoner levels. At 6th level I retrain one of the commoner levels and become a commoner 3/wizard 3.

If this doesn't help then I apologize for the derail.

Silver Crusade

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UnArcaneElection wrote:

^But they will reflect somebody who had to start out as a novice and work their way up with no help, which is what I think the original poster meant.

Now if you want somebody that stays a novice, use normal Rogue with the Minor Magic and Major Magic Rogue Talents (and preferably the Bookish Rogue feat).

You basically got exactly what i'm trying to go for.


Lelomenia wrote:
I think you could play an Eldritch Scoundrel as an amateur wizard who tries to get by as much by his wits and plucky gumption as his limited casting abilities.

I tried to do this in a campaign once... she certainly felt like a novice wizard... which was my intent with the character after all... but the DM kept referring to her as “the rogue”...


In all aspects of this concept, I think it is a roleplaying style choice... not a class or archetype choice. Sorcerers have magic in their blood, they are magical... sure there's probably a learning curve, but by adulthood you are probably no longer novice. Wizards are the experts on all things magical... they generally don't stay novice for long unless they are stupid and have lazy studying habits.

Exploiter Wizard as a novice? Isn't it arguably one of THE most powerful archetypes in the entirety of PF1?

You can be literally any class/archetype you want. It doesn't even need any actual magic... you can be a novice spellcaster that relies on item mastery feats and UMD. Can't get anymore novice of a spellcaster than litetally no magic whatsoever.

The real question is what is your character supposed to offer the party?


^To put the original poster's question another way, which classes give off the best novice vibes at their starting and near-starting levels? I don't think most types of Wizard are among this list . . . .

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