I always thought it was way overpowered, especially for paladins who can cast it at well, as it tends to ruin "The quest giver is a bad guy" plots immediately. And while there are ways to counter it, most of them aren't available at level 1 or 2. I was thinking it should have a Will save, and make it so if the target saves the spell returns a negative result, with the caster having no way of knowing whether it was due to them saving or them actually not being evil (similar to augury). Maybe also make it so someone who saves is immune for a day, so a paladin can't just spam it every round until the target fails.
If you're the GM, the quest-giver has Misdirection or Aura Alteration. Done and done :P
Also, what if the "quest giver is evil" is actually part of an epic story towards redemption? What if he's actually a really good person who has recently been forced to commit an evil act for the greater good, but until he redeems himself, he's showing as evil?
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I find that actually following the rules for detect evil fixes several of the perceived issues.
It's more the locating hidden enemies/ enemies behind walls at will that concerns me, especially in prewritten content.
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Detect evil is prejudicial and always inappropriate. It doesn't distinguish between a completely harmless, innocent undead person and a mortal psychopath.
No more paladins is the solution.
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Have the quest giver not be a divine caster under 4 hd, won’t detect a thing
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Make use of Lingering Auras.
If the Senior Priest of Puppy-Kick Funslayer has passed through the area some time this week, his divinely evil stank will remain as a Lingering Aura. Because the Lingering Aura is always of the lowest tier of intensity, however, the pally will have no way of knowing what left the aura; without that knowledge, he also can't know how long ago it was left.
There could be lingering auras caused minutes ago by a conjurer using Summon Monster II to summon a fiendish animal (2 hd Evil Outsider = moderate aura) to perform some task. (:
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It's more the locating hidden enemies/ enemies behind walls at will that concerns me, especially in prewritten content.
get thicker walls? This shouldn't be a problem in most dungeons, castles and/or caves I'd think with stone walls (natural or brick), but I can see how that might be a problem in say a tavern or other non-fortified structure.
Does having it allow a save sound reasonable? It IS only a level 1 spell (effectively level 0 for paladins, as they can cast it at will at level 1.)
Detect evil is prejudicial and always inappropriate. It doesn't distinguish between a completely harmless, innocent undead person and a mortal psychopath.
No more paladins is the solution.
Banning an entire core class over a single spell seems kind of drastic.
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I think the main issue is that Detect Evil is actually a fairly complicated spell and that many groups don't seem to follow the rules as to how it actually works.
Really take a look at the strength of the auras and how many HD a given target needs to have to meet that threshold. An evil lvl4 expert doesn't show on the radar at all, but a lvl5 expert does, if they have active evil intent. Undead, outsiders and classes with cleric-like auras all have much stronger auras much sooner, but they're probably not the ones who pretend to be good guys and stab you in the back later; they're the ones running the cult that convinces people to pretend to be good guys and stab you in the back later.
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I find that actually following the rules for detect evil fixes several of the perceived issues.
Yeah gonna have to agree with this one.
The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it. If an aura is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.
Undead, Outsiders and holy/unholy types radiate auras from level 1, but nobody else does. A regular person of 1-4HD won't radiate an Evil arua, and with 5-10HD they'll only radiate a faint arua.
Items radiate auras, so a good person holding an Evil 6th level magic item would radiate an Evil aura.
If you are of good alignment, and the strongest evil aura's power is overwhelming, and the HD or level of the aura's source is at least twice your character level, you are stunned for 1 round and the spell ends. Note: This part of the rules is part of round 2 , which means you wouldn't yet know the exact location of each aura . So if you're in a tavern, you Detect Evil on the guy in front of you and there's a Vampire hiding in the walls - you get stunned and don't know what triggered the spell.
Regarding Paladins - Taking away their Detect Evil means they can't check before smiting. If you DO decide to change the rules for Detect Evil I'd change the rules for Smite Evil so that their Smite isn't wasted if the enemy isn't Evil. Otherwise they might end up wasting a precious resource just because you didn't like the rules. Of course they can then effectively use Smite Evil as Detect Evil . It's not quite and "at will" ability in this case so they probably won't spam it as much, but it doesn't really solve the "problem" you're trying to solve.
I find that actually following the rules for detect evil fixes several of the perceived issues.Yeah gonna have to agree with this one.
Adding a third vote for this line of thinking.
Removing alignment as written also fixes the problem, obviously.
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"Creatures with actively evil intents count as evil creatures for the purpose of this spell." Which means that, depending on their current line of thinking, literally anyone could ping as "evil" assuming their HD is high enough.
"Undetectable Alignment" is low-level, available to a lot of casters, and wands of it would be fairly cheap. Plus a single casting lasts for 24 hours!
Page 155 of Ultimate Intrigue goes more in depth with how to handle "Detect Evil" but those are the main two points as to why it's not nearly as "broken" as it might appear to be.
Another option is to give the quest giver a reason to be evil that doesn't prevent good characters from working with him -- such as a lawful evil type who really hates demons and wants to hire the party to hunt them down. A paladin might add finding a non-evil enemy of the quest giver to help him go after the quest giver later if he is worried that he might be helping out his first patron too much.
Undead, outsiders and classes with cleric-like auras all have much stronger auras much sooner
And they can afford Angelskin armor to fool you. >:D
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As others have said actually using the rules is the solution to the problem. As pointed out most of the NPC’s will not have an aura or if they do will be fairly weak. But there is also another way to hide your BBEG.
If your BBEG is a cleric just have them worship a deity within one step of their actual alignment. For example for the lawful evil hidden villain don’t have him be a worshiper of Asmodeous have him worship Abadar. A cleric aura is based on his deities alignment not his own. Just like a lawful neutral cleric of Asmodeous would radiate evil, a lawful evil cleric of Abadar would not.
Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.
The bolded section makes it clear the paladin can in fact use detect evil like the spell.
The evil intent is from ultimate intrigue, which I do not have. The Archives of Nethys says that a creature with actively evil intents counts as evil. That would mean that a person of another alignment will detect as evil if they are currently engaging in an evil act, assuming they are high enough level. It does not say a hostile act so just because the person is doing something against the caster or the party will not necessarily cause them to detect as evil.
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As others have said actually using the rules is the solution to the problem. As pointed out most of the NPC’s will not have an aura or if they do will be fairly weak. But there is also another way to hide your BBEG.
If your BBEG is a cleric just have them worship a deity within one step of their actual alignment. For example for the lawful evil hidden villain don’t have him be a worshiper of Asmodeous have him worship Abadar. A cleric aura is based on his deities alignment not his own. Just like a lawful neutral cleric of Asmodeous would radiate evil, a lawful evil cleric of Abadar would not.
This still only works if they are less than 5 HD. Once they hit level 5, they'll radiate an Aura of Lawful and Evil. The Channeler of the Unknown gets an undetectable alignment which is neat.
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it is not clear whether the Paladin can use their SLA to cast the normal version of Detect Evil, or of they are limited to their single-target move-action version.
Paladin’s Detect Evil: Does a paladin need to spend a standard action to activate detect evil before spending a move action to concentrate on a single creature or item?
No, the first sentence is discrete from the rest of the ability, and offers an alternative option for using detect evil. A paladin can use the move action on a single creature or item in lieu of the standard action to activate a normal detect evil.
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Ring of Mind Shielding is cheap for anyone who isn't a small time crook.
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Detect evil, especially the Paladin SLA version already has some built in balances to it...
Detect evil, the spell, will overwhelm the mind of the caster if a powerful aura is detected and the caster will have no time to determine who or where exactly it came from before falling unconscious... so liberal usage of detect evil can very easily render a party member out of commission when they might be needed the most.
Detect evil, the SLA, has the same drawbacks as the spell, plus the added restriction of being a targeted ability rather than a cone effect. So while a Paladin will know who or what emitted such a powerful evil aura, they have to spend a move action on each individual person or object they inspect. This also prevents them from seeing an aura on the other side of a wall as well unless they cast it as an actual spell.
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Detect evil, especially the Paladin SLA version already has some built in balances to it...
Detect evil, the spell, will overwhelm the mind of the caster if a powerful aura is detected and the caster will have no time to determine who or where exactly it came from before falling unconscious... so liberal usage of detect evil can very easily render a party member out of commission when they might be needed the most.
"If you are of good alignment, and the strongest evil aura’s power is overwhelming (see below), and the HD or level of the aura’s source is at least twice your character level, you are stunned for 1 round and the spell ends."
this is all that happens.
"If you are of good alignment, and the strongest evil aura’s power is overwhelming (see below), and the HD or level of the aura’s source is at least twice your character level, you are stunned for 1 round and the spell ends."
this is all that happens.
And it happens only to those, who are of good alignment.
There might be a rules-sneaky workaround for good people though: Think about murdering lots of babies while casting the spell, because that makes you count as evil for the spell and thus you avoid the stun:
"Creatures with actively evil intents count as evil creatures for the purpose of this spell."
Adventurers = (Baby) Murder Hobos! :D
Pfft, you just don't want others to think about murdering babies, you Killjoy! xD
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Note that the wording from ultimate intrigue stats active intents, not active thoughts. So unless the good person actually intends to commit and evil act they will not detect as evil. You may be thinking of killing the annoying but innocent person, but unless you actually plan to do it you still detect as good.
OK, I actively plan to kill every baby that shows up as evil when I cast this spell! >:D
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BTW, Matthew Downey (or anyone else), how do you get to the PF1 FAQs?For some reason Google doesn't like to take people to this page.
OK, I actively plan to kill every baby that shows up as evil when I cast this spell! >:D
You cast detect evil as you gaze around the room, but you see no evil auras. You do however spot a mother nursing her newborn child in the corner... do you follow through with your intent or was your “intent” false and just evil thoughts?
You cast detect evil as you gaze around the room, but you see no evil auras. You do however spot a mother nursing her newborn child in the corner... do you follow through with your intent or was your “intent” false and just evil thoughts?
Huh? The baby didn't show as evil, did it?