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Looking for something official, not sure if it exists, as I don't recall seeing it, and Google Fu has come up dry thus far.
With the exception of some things like wall spells, the vertical height of a lot of area spells is left ambiguous. At lower levels, when most creatures and characters in a combat are on the ground, this isn't really an issue. But the higher level play goes, the more things like flying and weird terrain come up that make the question relevant. So for the two most frequently types of area effects, the question would be:
Radius effects: do we treat the radius measurement as good for all 3 dimensions? A fireball centered at ground level would be a 20' radius hemisphere, while one centered 20' in the air would be a full 20' radius globe, with the vertical topography resembling the 2D contours of the area? Or is it simply a 20' radius area with a 5' height?
Cone effects: do we treat the cone as expanding outward in the same fashion on the vertical axis as on the horizontal, so a 15' color spray is 5' high adjacent to the caster, but 15' high in its most distant squares? Or is it just a 5' high cone throughout the whole 15' horizontal area?
I've always just taken the terms radius or cone in their geometric meetings, so a fireball or cone of cold have both "height" and "width". You're right that it becomes more important at higher levels of play, and can be a bit confusing (like anytime combat has to be in three-dimenions). Even my metal spell templates turned on their side don't always help . . .
This is one of Pathfinder's greatest faults in my personal opinion: the inclusion of 3-D spells (like fly) and the extreme lack of 3-D rules governing how 3-D combat works. RAW answer to your question: Unless otherwise stated in a specific rule of a spell, the spell is meant to be 2-dimensional <--- I think this is dumb, btw.
Personally, I house rule that all Radius effects are spherical and all cone effects are a true 3-D cone effects. This resolves the most problems with 2-D vs. 3-D combat, as every character level 5+ has some access to flight, be it spell, class ability, or item.
Because if there's a flying Wizard and he's 10ft off the ground, and casts a 60ft cone and hits no one because by RAW its a 2-D spell and they were all medium creatures at ground level, this is infuriatingly lazy rule-making.
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I don't think that's a houserule, I'm pretty sure radius or diameter (or even cones, bursts, etc) apply in all directions.
I think this misconception comes from the fact that the format (which is often two-dimensional) and average play doesn't need to account for 3D combat.
That said, I'd agree that most tabletop games don't do a great job of handling the complexity of 3D combat. I'd disagree that it's particularly unique to PF1e, it just adds an additional layer of complexity to an already complex game.
I don't think that's a houserule, I'm pretty sure radius or diameter (or even cones, bursts, etc) apply in all directions.
Yes, the rules define areas of effects as spheres - not circles - and cones - not triangles.
Burst, Emanation, or Spread: Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell’s point of origin and measure its effect from that point.
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don’t extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst’s area defines how far from the point of origin the spell’s effect extends.
An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres.
A spread spell extends out like a burst but can turn corners. You select the point of origin, and the spell spreads out a given distance in all directions. Figure the area the spell effect fills by taking into account any turns the spell effect takes.
Cone, Cylinder, Line, or Sphere: Most spells that affect an area have a particular shape.
A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes. Most cones are either bursts or emanations (see above), and thus won’t go around corners.
When casting a cylinder-shaped spell, you select the spell’s point of origin. This point is the center of a horizontal circle, and the spell shoots down from the circle, filling a cylinder. A cylinder-shaped spell ignores any obstructions within its area.
A line-shaped spell shoots away from you in a line in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that blocks line of effect. A line-shaped spell affects all creatures in squares through which the line passes.
A sphere-shaped spell expands from its point of origin to fill a spherical area. Spheres may be bursts, emanations, or spreads.
Sean K. Reynolds said so as well:
Just because things are normally expressed on a flat grid doesn't mean they're actually flat. Any effect with a radius affects a sphere, not a circle. A cone is a 3d area.
A line is a line, not a plane.
right, the game is built around 3d spheres and cones. however to typically cause those spells to hit those on the ground, it's generally played so that the spells plane of maximum area (along it's middle) is placed upon the ground. If that spell were cast towards something above the ground plane, then the spells area of effect on the ground would be reduced.
right, the game is built around 3d spheres and cones. however to typically cause those spells to hit those on the ground, it's generally played so that the spells plane of maximum area (along it's middle) is placed upon the ground. If that spell were cast towards something above the ground plane, then the spells area of effect on the ground would be reduced.
Assuming you didn't care about shooting up, this is what I like to call the "cone downgraded to line" rule.
But yeah, spells specifically call out if it is a pillar/cylinder and how tall said pillar is if you aren't meant to apply "half distance in new direction" rule to calculating radius. So if a fireball hits the ground, someone 10ft in the air is only within range if they are 15ft from the source. Cone are always a 90* quartering of a circle or in 3d space, an eigth-ing of a sphere if needed to aim specifically up or down.
Cone are always a 90* quartering of a circle or in 3d space, an eigth-ing of a sphere if needed to aim specifically up or down.
Not quite, no. You can't simply cut a sphere into a cone, and in terms of space:
Volume of a Sphere: = 4/3 * π * r³
Volume of a Cone: = 1/3 * π * r² * h (D&D/PF uses right circular cones),
and due to the 90°-angle at the top, we have an isosceles triangle where height (length) equals the radius at the base, while the length of a cone denotes its slanted height, and it quickly follows from h = r and r = l : √2 that: V = 1/3 * π * r³ : 2√2
So it's less than an 1/8th, as you have to divide it by 8 and √2 to get the same volume.
However, if you start dividing everything into cubes and then go with the rules of going diagonally counts as 5ft on odd & and 10ft on even steps, as well as the opposite sides rule... then it's a nightmare! You'll have to use a geometry program to do that, or maybe there are already special RPG 3D battlefield simulators?
Edit: Wait, no, does it say in the rules whether the 10ft, 15ft, 30ft of a cone denotes its height or slant or both? I fear it denotes both... Makes it impossible to calculate then... I'm getting the feeling now that "cones" in Pathfinder aren't actual cones at all...
Guessing at shapes is a pain. It's still better than D&D 4e's fireballs being cubes IMO. I once had occasion to fire a color spray 15' straight down; we agreed it would make a cross-shape on the map, and eventually agreed not to try and fire cones down at an angle to pick out the desired targets in a melee.
@Theaitetos, Oh derp you're right, for some reason I was imagining the 90* part on the surface of the sphere, so you get to angles at the equator that come to another 90* angle at either pole.
our solution is to have spell templates we can place wither horizontally or vertically to show area.
How do you deal with something like 'Antimagic Field'?
It's a 10' emanation centered on you. Assuming you're standing on the ground, does that mean it extends to 10' above the ground? You're supposed to pick a grid intersection. Do you treat it as though there's a 5' vertical grid as well, so you can choose to center it there and get it to 15' up? If you're over 5' tall, can you go higher, or are players treated as 5' cubes?
How do you deal with something like 'Antimagic Field'?
It's a 10' emanation centered on you. Assuming you're standing on the ground, does that mean it extends to 10' above the ground? You're supposed to pick a grid intersection. Do you treat it as though there's a 5' vertical grid as well, so you can choose to center it there and get it to 15' up? If you're over 5' tall, can you go higher, or are players treated as 5' cubes?
Yes, if you have an AMF on a Large (10x10) creature, it would extend 10ft from their actual space, so it would be 10x10x10 + 10ft in all directions, so theoretically 30ft diameter sphere. There was an FAQ on this. It didn't specifically address height in the FAQ, but one can extrapolate that it *should* work this way. And frankly, it would be absurd to suggest it doesn't.
Ah, that FAQ makes it much clearer, thank you.
Greater Black Tentacles is 120' radius spread... so they reach 120' into the air, right?
Greater black tentacles is a generic name for Jatembe's ire. And yeah, that spell was for clearing out a city's ruins, not just the ground level thereof.
@Belafon, actually it's always 10ft at the edge, as its the third square that rounds up from 7.5ft to 10ft of distance with dimension halving. The 10th foot still counts as the same 5ft diagonal step.