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White wolf has issues with botched rolls(although in my experience only it is less about botching and more about failing to get any successes).Botches were inconsistent based on the iteration of WoD they were in. Original botching where you accumulated more 1’s than successes was pretty hard to do, revised botching where it was no successes and one 1 was easier.
The switching from OWoD to NWoD (now known as Chronicles of Darkness) jettisoned botches and I don’t think I particularly miss them
I recall when I started playing, default difficulties (on a d10) were a target number of 6, with some exceptions, and botching didn't seem to happen that much, but then it crept up to 'base' difficulty 7, and then *8*, by either Trinity or Revised or something, IIRC, and it started to get really frustrating to roll small handful of dice and not be able to get enough 8s to succeed.
It felt like the tuning of the difficulty had been meant to address games like Exalted or Aberrant where someone could be rolling big handsful of dice, but for a game like Adventure! or Trinity, where one's dice pool was 'merely human,' a so-called professional expert at something could regularly fail at routine day to day tasks.
TLDR; I didn't love their dice system. :)
GURPS, OTOH, I liked a lot, for both their 3d6 mechanic and their character building rules. Their Yrth fantasy campaign setting was just about the least interesting game setting I have played in, 'though...
Trinity and Aberrant were technically a third iteration of the system that had slightly different mechanics from Storyteller and Storyteller revised.
I don’t remember the success threshold being at 6 in the earlier version, though it has been a long time since I looked at an edition older than Masquerade revised which is where I entered into play. From that point clear through to V20 it remained 7,8,9 and 10.
V5 expanded the range to include sixes, which on a bit of research is to restore the original success threshold from the first and second edition WoD.
Turns out, trying to work out how to generate a PF2E character with the AonPRD, as an ex-PF1E player, is a lot like having a hypomanic episode.
it's actually really stressful and not fun why is nothing linked
I have to decide between
no, I can't even, like, summarize, it's too overwhelming, there are a lot of options for humans and all I know so far is my abilities, because I dragged the system kicking and screaming to give me my finalized abilities first-things-first
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It's like trying to navigate a maze, and I have a golden thread, but the thread represents my understanding of PF1E, and turns out the minotaur has picked up the other end of the thread and is basically just screwing with me now
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Well damn. Let me think back now ...
White wolf has issues with botched rolls(although in my experience only it is less about botching and more about failing to get any successes).
Shadowrun is very much the same,, but I think they changed the rules several editions ago, though.
L5R can get bad with things going wrong in some specific combats- iaijutsu I think. It has been a loooooooooooooong time, but the ability to choose what number you are going for can mitigate a lot of dice fickleness- I am speaking with respect to earlier editions not the newest one).
Palladium is...Palladium.
d6 Star Wars can very easily have you killing yourself or someone else because a grenade went off wrong, or you failed a piloting check. I would actually argue Star Wars is the LEAST forgiving system, death lurks around any corner for just about anything, including swimming. I think that may be why the d6 system didn't take off, despite associated good memories on my part.
My experience with WW (1st iteration) was that there was a certain level of dice where one started to 'break down' their die pools into separate actions -- because at a certain point there was a greater chance of rolling more '1's on a massive handful of dice than there was of rolling an equal or greater number of successes.
Shadowrun I only played a couple of times, and I'd submit it's right up there with GURPS as far as character creation -- by the time folks had created characters everyone was so tired no one wanted to play.
Haven't played L5R and sitting listening to it being played at one point made me fall asleep.
Palladium: See comment about Shadowrun/Gurps.
D6: Played a bunch of Star Wars in this system. We had run the math, and it's not until one hits 5d+2 that one isn't in danger of critting the bed in failure.
Most average 'mooks' that aren't trained start at 2d, maybe 3d in a specialist skill.
It was bad enough that they had to come up with rules to emulate storm troopers not hitting players, but also NOT shooting each other via 'being trained in their armor' (which was a hefty -2d penalty to skill actions).
KC: As painful as it is, that approach kind of has to be set aside for PF2. I know, I tried doing it with my first six characters. It was migraine-inducing and not-fun.
My experience has been mixed since dabbling in HLO and just going with "I want this one thing or this other one thing". The system specifically and utterly punishes generalists because 'how dare anyone try to cover all the skills in case the party doesn't have them?"
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Yeah, it's just hard to un-learn what I know from PF1, and without it I know nothing and I'm just overwhelmed by options that mean nothing to me. I'm making headway, it's just. A slog.
... why are skills still Int-based
why does having a negative Int still penalize your skills
I am being really moodswingy about this and I am going to stop trying to build a character for now
The character that sounded in my mind to be the most fun -- Hark, the Healbold -- has taken a back seat to The Comedienne, Shove (the Shovelbold), H'tanor, and Sal (the Salesbold).
Only the knowledge based skills are derived from INT. I guess they could go WIS, but then INT should just be removed from the game entirely.
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I'm not trying to be rude, but can I vent without starting an argument? Also, no, all bonus skill trainings are derived from Int.
EDIT: Sorry, to be clear, I'm in the hypomanianxiadhd place where the second one thing goes wrong the world is ending and every single emotion is at 11. It's not actually a good state of mind to do arguments in. That doesn't excuse being sharp at you, dirtypool. Sorry.
I wasn’t trying to argue, I just misunderstood your post thinking your usage of the word “based” was referring to derived skills not on the number of additional skills.
I was just trying to engage.
Sorry if it seemed I was trying to debate with you, I was not.
Ex had her girlfriend over again, and I spent an hour trying to understand a game system and failing. My brain is not cooperating, and I'm feeling pretty unoptimistic about lamotrigine. My doc likes to err on "mild symptom" medications, and this one may not even be recommended for the kind of bipolar I likely have.
I'm going to start taking it tomorrow. Should have done from the start. I just have very little hope, and I'll have to wait two weeks to even see any small improvements or work out if it's ruining my brain. I've been off my estradiol for about three weeks now, I think. Off Adderall for six days. It's all a mess. I was going okay the last few days but tonight I'm not. I also snapped at basically everyone who implied a defense of PF2's perceived flaws around me, so that's fun. Oh, and I didn't even really attempt either of the very easy tasks I promised I'd do.
Please understand that medication is important, and if you're reading this, please don't interpret this as anything other than the irrational throes of someone who's really not in a healthy state of mind, but I f%$%ing hate medication.
It's just miserable cruel crapshoot and false hope after miserable crapshoot and false hope, again and again, and it's expensive, and the side effects are a nightmare, and even if you find one that "works" the side effects can force you to switch, and oh yeah sometimes it has to be a needle that can traumatize you or an itchy patch to endlessly feel overstimulated by.
Please don't take this as me saying I won't take it or telling others medication isn't worth it. I'm just really sad right now.
Shadowrun I only played a couple of times, and I'd submit it's right up there with GURPS as far as character creation -- by the time folks had created characters everyone was so tired no one wanted to play.
Very well said.
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** spoiler omitted **
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At least you don't have to work outside when it's 20 degrees (technically the wind chill makes it feel like 12 degrees but I wear so many layers that wind chill doesn't come in to play).
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
Thank you. <3
I think the whole "I'm allowed to be a bad person as long as I direct it towards bad people" mindset, "I'm allowed to hurt you if you hurt me", all that? It sucks. And I'm struggling a lot still with how to process the fight because that mindset is infecting both of us.
That night, I said I felt gaslit, because I'd asked about something weird and concerning I'd overheard (the out of context snippet made it sound like she didn't think necrophilia was wrong, so, kind of concerning) and she mostly tried to brush me off with an "I don't see how this is any of your business", like we were talking about her choice in diet, instead of clarifying the misunderstanding, and played dumb about the concerns I was voicing. She saw bringing up the word "gaslighting" as an enormous line to cross. Meanwhile, she later told me as her parting shot that my actions were likely to lead to her self-harming that night.
We were both in iffy states of mind at the time, so I'm not going to play the context game. Mostly, it just hurts. She hasn't even acknowledged that what she did, the self-harm notice thing, was abusive--she just wants me to apologize for what I did. She thinks I accused her of gaslighting simply for trying to set boundaries. Maybe? I don't know. I've had boundary issues in the past, but in this case, I feel like she's basically ignoring the perspective I came in with.
Mostly, it just hurts. I'd like to put in work on this, but I think she expects that to be my job. And maybe that's fair--if I'm the one who wants to mend things, maybe it's my burden to bear--but it also kind of feels like I'm just trying to be a half-decent person, and she's decided she doesn't "owe" me that anymore.
Which, you know. Maybe I do need to just drop it and wait for her to move out. I'm just sad and angry and I wish I wasn't the only one trying to understand what happened that night.
Okay, I've been thinking more about it. I think I reached enough catharsis for today, and I'm gonna write a sort of rough draft to send her when we're both able to engage with it, if my therapist thinks it's a good idea to keep engaging at all. Otherwise, it's just for my personal use.
First, I'm sorry I came at you and assumed "guilt" on the necrophilia thing. I heard some snippets out of context, and from my perspective, I was being careful and measured--I stopped myself from jumping to negative conclusions and tried to think about possible justifications. You know, sexuality is complicated, maybe you see something I don't. You're rarely so clearly in the wrong as I thought you were. I tried to think of justifications and couldn't think of any, and I assumed that was my due diligencce--and trying to think of justifications had skeeved me out, so I messaged you immediately.
But it didn't occur to me that I'd just... misheard you. And I had. I should have asked for your input. I f*&~ed up, and I'm genuinely sorry, because I know that must have been upsetting. We can talk about why I was ready to assume something so negative, but it mostly amounts to "we don't talk much anymore, sexuality is weird and polarizing and ripe with hot takes, and you used to vent some disturbing things to me and some of it is still in my head a little and it biases me unfairly".
I do, however, want to stress that *I thought I'd heard something really alarming about my friend and my roommate*. And so when I messaged you, I messaged you both as my friend and as my roommate who I thought was saying that necrophilia wasn't so bad. That is a ***huge red flag***, and I think we can both agree that had it been true, I would have had every right to demand an explanation. It's not the sort of situation where "um, this is my own business" applies. And *that's* the perspective I was coming at everything from.
So, the second thing. Yes, I jumped to conclusions unfairly. I was 100% in the wrong, and lashing out at me for it is understandable. But that doesn't make it *right*. I've done plenty of "understandable" things that were entirely wrong and required apologies--including assuming the worst of you here.
The best action here would have been to immediately clarify, and focus on calling me out on my response later. Failing that, a less spoons-intensive "that's out of context, I'll explain later" would have still deescalated things. Even saying "I can't do this right now, I will later" or a "why are you attacking me and not asking for an explanation" would have worked.
I said "I felt gaslit"--not "you gaslit me", but "I felt gaslit"--because I felt gaslit. And it took me a long time to work out how to say this, and I'm going to say it. It's not about boundaries. And it's not just that one time.
Sometimes, I feel like you see our altercations as a sort of black-and-white "whoever's at fault must shoulder the entire burden" system. If you determine that I'm in the wrong, suddenly it's Anything Goes, because I'm being a bad friend and any kind of behavior is justified if it's to protect yourself from me. And often I am out of line when that happens! But you stop treating me like a friend in these moments.
Like, that night, I had a basic misunderstanding. I was in the wrong. I messaged you, and instead of clarifying, you engaged in a way where I really had no chance to realize I was wrong. You let me keep being wrong because you "didn't owe me an explanation", even though doing so basically ensured I would assume that there was a serious problem.
If I assume my roommate's pro-necrophilia based on misread evidence. I'm in the wrong. But if she gets cagey and starts saying things like "oh, sorry, I'll be quieter about it if it bothers you" like she doesn't even understand my concerns, or "I don't see what business it is of yours" like she doesn't even understand why her being pro-necrophilia is kind of a serious safety concern for me, what am I supposed to assume? You're setting me up to be confused, to screw up more.
And then I screw up more, and it's my fault, and I feel stupid and confused because you could have shut it down at any time. And it would have cost us both less.
And it's not fair to say, "Well, you could have stopped bothering me. Don't blame me for 'making' you harass me." Because again, putting aside that my assumption was unfair, that assumption was still a huge safety concern for me and it felt like you were trying to make me feel stupid for being worried about it. There were plenty of ways to clarify that would have cost you very little. "I can't do this right now, later."
That's why I said I felt gaslit. And maybe "gaslit" was the wrong term, but I was trying to express that you were engaging with me in a way that made me feel confused and unsure of myself.
I don't know if this is deliberate. I don't know why you do it. And I am fully prepared to accept that this was simply you not having the energy on what was already a bad night for you to think of the "right" thing to say. I am! But I wasn't doing great, either.
Our actions are still our own, and I can be overflowing with empathy for how awful your day was and still be hurt when you engage, intentionally or not, in a way that is unnecessarily hurtful.
Our imperfections make us human. I don't want to tear you apart over yours, but it's not fair to tear me apart for mine if you aren't going to acknowledge your own as your own responsibility.
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Okay, I want to buy something to show I think recognizing the Paizo union was a good idea, and for the sake of having things to look forward to in the mail because it's a good unhealthy depression cope. What are some Paizo products I should look into?
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I heard neat things about the PLO: The Grand Bazaar (PF2), so I bought that recently and am waiting for it to ship.
They also have that kobold plush, but that's not going to be avail until next year so it won't help with retail therapy.
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There's some heavy shit. Make sure you're in the right state of mind for it. I was not, haha.
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** spoiler omitted **
I FREAKING LOVE THAT COMIC I BOUGHT IT ON COMIXOLOGY TO SUPPORT IT
Okay, I want to buy something to show I think recognizing the Paizo union was a good idea, and for the sake of having things to look forward to in the mail because it's a good unhealthy depression cope. What are some Paizo products I should look into?
Legends, Gods and Magic, and The Mwangi Expanse are all great even if you don't like 2nd edition. A LOT of world building going on.
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Mwangi Expanse is on my 'in the future' list.
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Mwangi Expanse is on my 'in the future' list.
For what it's worth it's my favorite 2nd edition book.
I can't recommend it enough.
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In almost every community I'm in, swearing just gets turned to **** and ******* and ******* and ************, and it works fine. Why can't the f-word just turn to @#$% if it's that big a deal?
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I genuinely wonder if saying "the f-word" is now against the rules.
Look, I'm crabby. Swears don't mean a lot to me. I respect they do to some people, but... come on, even newspaper comics can get away with more than this.
The last time i was anywhere that forbade profanity was in Christian servers in Source game mods a decade ago. I'm not sure what benefit blocking profanity serves when there's already a filter. Like, what kids are even on a *forum* for a niche hobby in 2021?
The last time i was anywhere that forbade profanity was in Christian servers in Source game mods a decade ago.
....what?
I have never had a post moderated for profanity beyond the filter, and it's not like I haven't used "profanity".
Well good for you, cupcake. Ah heck, it's just not the same without the swearing.
My problem is that it unfairly targets characters speaking with a dialect. Aside from that, enh.
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I won't f&$!ing tell if you don't.
How does it target dialects?
Bear in mind, the issue isn't accidentally sidestepping the filter. Even with the filter working perfectly, those posts that include swears are still not allowed.
I have a character that speaks with a bit of a rural doggerel.
Because of the punctuation, it triggers the profanity filter.
Well good for you, cupcake. Ah heck, it's just not the same without the swearing.
I appreciate a good Yelling Bird strip.
But no...
My point is that the moderation simply is unevenly applied, and I'm the example of it from the other direction. When I swear in my posts, they have yet to be moderated. I've never been given a warning, let alone a temp ban.
Now, that said, my swearing is always for additional emphasis and never targeted at another poster. That may have something to do with it. Either that or the moderators are stretched thin enough that I have hit the mathematically improbable "just never got seen" status.
But I'm also primarily posting in FAWTL, and we tend to police ourselves relatively well there. For the most part.
It's more just a matter of getting flagged, or of posting on high-moderator-attention threads.
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Like, yeah, I think that I've had enough of cis white "allies" going on Twitter and getting bigots in the mood to go out and do hatecrimes for literally no reason except "lol". It's not about "don't make your abuser mad", it's about "don't make someone else's abuser mad for literally no reason except its own sake".