"Rounds" in 4.1 (attack on Sandpoint)


Rise of the Runelords


The attack on Sandpoint in 4.1 is described in "rounds". Are these really intended to be "combat rounds"?
That would basically mean the PCs have NO way of keeping up with the fight as even the movement between the locations takes up too much time. I'm not even counting the actual combat at the locations.

Also the events at the locations happen much too fast.
Look at the events at Scarnetti Manor. The attackers arrive there in round 10.
The fire doesn't attract others until round 16 at the earliest.
The description of what the attackers have already accomplished when they are confronted (let's say round 20):
"...have already loaded a lot of treasure into their wagon, including four woven silk tapestries worth 1,200 gp each; three chests of silver and gold-inlaid tableware worth 1,000 gp in all; barrels of wine, brandy, and olive oil worth a total of 1,400 gp; and a teakwood desk inlaid with silver and gold worth 600 gp."

All that in 60 seconds while at the same time attacking the house? I know the attackers are strong and can carry a lot, but it takes more time to even FIND that stuff.

This is an attack on a complete city and it takes only 25 rounds. If these are really 6 second combat rounds, the whole attack is over in two and a half minutes!

So what am I supposed to take as the unit of time for these "rounds"?


Yes they are combat rounds of 6 seconds. But of course if you find it unrealistic you could change it. Without mounts or movement spells, the PCs will have a difficult time being everywhere at once, but that is exactly what the AP assumes: they can't solve all the problems, and the town will suffer losses. A likely outcome is that they capture NPCs and return to Jorgenfist with them, in which case you have a nice hook for the next part.


Even with mounts, mounting/unmounting also takes time and crossing a town on horse during the panic of an attack does also not sound wise.

I know that the players don't have to be able to solve all these incidents and maybe they have to abandon some to rescue others. That's fine. I could also just "wing it", meaning I never determine fixed times beforehand and just let them fight the different fights and "announce" the next incident when I feel it is dramatically appropriate.

But I also want the players to be able to be "earn" certain advantages by being faster than the predetermined timetable.
And I want the times to feel realistic. Attack on a whole town including looting over in 2,5 minutes? Please...

OK, then the question is:
What is the experience of the forum members that have played this either as player or GM? What is a good time interval for these rounds?
If you have played it strict with the given times, how did it work out?


I played strictly with the given times, but besides the times I made a lot of changes. The players started playing as NPCs before the PCs arrived to save the day. The NPCs killed some goblins and a bugbear before giants arrived through the north gate (the goblinoids came through a hole in the wall that the giants created by throwing stones), then held their ground 1 or 2 rounds before the PCs arrived. I think I subtracted 1 or 2 rounds total from the timer to compensate for this.

The PCs dealt with the giants quickly but were always one step behind. They let Longtooth attack all buildings before killing him at the final spot, Teraktinus went to the lighthouse and back and they saw him at the edge of town when he ran off with a Hellflume stone, even attacked him from long range but without any effect. In the meantime they fought other giants that came from the east and were pillaging, and they did manage to catch up out of town with the giants that looted Scarnetti manor since they were travelling slowly with all that loot.

Overall, many NPCs died, and many were captured, so the PCs rested, interrogated a captured giant, and immediately went after Jorgenfist. Which is what the AP assumes. But most importantly, the players liked this encounter, though the slow moving paladin did not have a mount and was frustrated that his allies went faster than him, he often missed out on the action. But he was more angry at his allies as he believed that the encounters were waiting for them to arrive (they were not).


I played strictly with the given times because I wanted the PCs to make hard choices on where to go and how to respond. But the morale tracker had the giants retreating early, which was a bit of a bummer.


I looked at it this way. They are not going to save the city! They can help defend it, but they can not succeed.

The giants want one thing, and as soon as they get it, they are out of there. They grab some additional on the way out, or in the process, just because they can. Heck, my group spent most of the time fighting a dragon. So, not even a focused on the prize that they had no idea even existed.

For me, the key was telling the story points. Make sure they see what the giants took. I felt it was a great encounter.


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I ran it mostly as written.... barring the fact that I amped up the Giants a fair amount. My party still zoomed through things at high speed, making it to each point within a round or so of each event, including hosing down Longtooth before he attacked more than two points. His death from flight DID cause some collateral damage as he crashed through the Mill on the east side of town.

All parties are different. Judge yourself if you need to slow down or even speed up the time table! You know if your party does or does not have an archer on a flying carpet, routine use of haste or blessing of fervor, dimension door, teleport effects, horses, etc. (Mine had ALL of those)

Match your playstyle, with where you are vs expectations (I'm running way above baseline, as in, we're nearing the end of book 5, and are 19th level).

My party had a blast, as do most that recount how their raid went. Play it up! I managed to print up a map of Sandpoint over 6 pieces of paper, and ran that as my battlemap. The scale was rough, but it enhanced the experience.


My group managed it as well without much in the way of casualties, seeing they caught a glimpse of the giants in the early morning and called an alarm. Nearly everyone evacuated. In fact, one character was quite put out that she couldn't subdue the dragon because she wanted a pet dragon. ^^;; I even added a pair of assassins attacking (due to the Scarnettis) immediately after the dragon was taken down.

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