Besides necessary gear, what do your adventurers spend money on

[Mark Hoover 330]

So in another thread we were discussing why magic item creation costs as much as it does. In the course of the discussion I asked what, if they can't buy/make magic items, would adventurers even hoard money for? The response was fancy clothes, houses, etc.

I really thought about it and then took an audit of the PCs in the 3 campaigns I'm running. All of the PCs own some kind of Downtime Organization (combo of Teams and Buildings), but then I kind of mandated that as the GM. Outside that and needed gear, none of the 13 PCs in question have any: expensive clothing or jewelry, private residences, land grants, noble titles, Contacts they maintain through bribery or donations, church tithes (outside one paladin who we mandated that for as part of the build), charitable foundations, etc.

Furthermore, in 2 of the three campaigns I've gone out of my way as GM to make up opera houses, expensive inns, theaters and other places where PCs might go on a night off to spend more than the requisite 3-10 GP/mo living expenses. None of the players have their characters frequent these places.

So... is this an anecdotal anomaly? Do MOST PCs spend gold frivolously when they have it, after they've spent on the needed gear for their current power level? Please let me know what your characters do with their gold when not spending it on such needed gear.

[VoodistMonk]

Buying flying carpets.

Buying thousands of Liquid Blades to supply slave rebellions in neighboring territories.

Buying/making defenses for random villages they pass through.

Buying/making taverns/bars/brothels in villages they frequent when the entertainment is not up to their standards for downtime.

[Heather 540]

My own characters used downtime rules to build houses. Two of them have also started or are gathering funds to start some businesses. My chemist owns a bar and brewery to sell both various drinks and potions. My forgepriest is going to sell various weapons, armor, and wondrous items.

I did buy a few extra clothing pieces for my gun chemist. A pocketed scarf and a cold-weather outfit. But those were more for the theme of this particular character rather than anything else.

[DeathlessOne]

Yeah, downtime rules, for sure. I've gotten to the point that I'd rather invest a sizable portion of my net wealth into the towns and cities I encounter, than spend it on consumables and trinkets. At the very least, it gives my less than Good aligned characters a vested interest in protecting something, and rising to challenge the BBEG when he gets uppity.

[Skrayper]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Buying flying carpets.

Buying thousands of Liquid Blades to supply slave rebellions in neighboring territories.

Buying/making defenses for random villages they pass through.

Buying/making taverns/bars/brothels in villages they frequent when the entertainment is not up to their standards for downtime.

My goal for my character is build a tavern that we (the party) can keep coming back to. That has been a huge goal of mine - since several levels ago (hard to get back to town and get it started).

Love the idea though, honestly.

[VoodistMonk]

The "rogue" at my table has an Alchemy shop that is a front for his assassin's guild.

Several of the players/characters have established/funded full blown temples to their respective gods.

Granted, I am GM'ing Kingmaker, so they have RESOURCES available to spend on dumb $#!+... and they do spent it on dumb $#!+... for the kingdom, I'm sure. Lol. The King's men must be comfortable, no matter where they may be in the kingdom...

New village? I don't want to help guarding this place right now, send a detachment of 25 men here immediately, and here's a couple grand [sometimes out of the character's coinpurse, not kingdom build points] to get them started on alternating guard shifts and building a stupid wall... it best be done by the time I get back from killing the oldest thing in all of Golarion... they are straight ballers, throwing money around like it ain't no thing... because everything they do helps their kingdom... and they can always turn building points into gold during the building phase... they always get theirs... flying carpets... never let your party have a flying carpet... they FILL portable holes with Alchemist Fire and Acid... litetally carpet bomb enemies from tgeir flying carpet...

Am I the only one saddened by Vordakai's death?

He was alive before the sky fell, and he goes down like a b!tch... if I was to ever run this again, his tomb would be empty... and Nyrissa would be working for him...

[Tim Emrick]

Most of my PF experience is with Society play, so take that into account when judging my answer here. (PFS has its own weird economic pressures.)

At some point, most of my characters end up buying a courtier's outfit, and the necessary jewelry to go with it, because eventually they will have to go on a mission involving a high-society event, and if they don't dress appropriately nobody will take them seriously. I also give most of them wayfinders at some point, mostly as a status symbol (though they'll acquire one sooner if they lack low-light vision or darkvision).

My Sovereign Court PC has a noble's outfit and even more jewelry to go with it, but that was actually free from a scenario boon that gave him a noble title. I should probably buy him additional outfits with his own cash, but haven't bothered yet.

Most of my divine casters will spring for more valuable holy symbols as soon as they can afford it, even though there is no mechanical benefit. (Though I do have one who refuses to use anything but the wooden symbol that belonged to his father.) A few of my more devout non-divine PCs do the same, and at least one or two of my PCs own multiple symbols--of the same god, if a divine class, or for multiple gods if they honor more than one. And several (divine and not) own at least one holy text, too.

My investigator's handy haversack is something like half full just of books (his formula book, personal journals, and enough Pathfinder Chroncicles to cover every Knowledge skill--even if the latter rarely get pulled out during adventures).

Finally, one of my PCs is a merchant, so early on in her career, she dumped 100 gp or so into some easily transportable trade goods (spices) to help sell the role during an adventure where she had to hide her Society affiliation. She has a handful of other possessions that most people would consider frivolous, but that SHE finds indispensible--like the aquarium ball she's been lugging around since 1st level (and eventually got enchanted), to keep her precious crab familiar properly hydrated.

[VoodistMonk]

Pocket watches are something my characters always get at some point. Absolutely never has come in handy or useful, but I am pretty sure every character of mine has ended up with one if we got to a point I could afford it...

[Gilfalas]

I have a warrior/Cleric character who used part of his wealth to reclaim his family estates and rebuild them. He also founded his own high end whiskey distillery and started a ranch to breed the greatest horses on the continent (at least that is his goal).

That character was always going to theaters and shows in the new lands he explored during down time.

Another character was a 3.5 Half Giant warblade that had a societal background much like the Vikings of earth so showing his power by displays of wealth was very important to him. He wore jeweled belts and necklaces, the most 'masterwork' clothing he could find and regularly threw feasts for his party to celebrate large victories. He also had a very large collection of first print poetry books that none of the other players ever discovered as he loved poetry.

I think it depends some on the game AND the players on how wealth is spent. Given how closely tied wealth is to effectiveness and items, spending it on non 'crunch' items often is not an option if you want to 'succeed' in combat.

[*Thelith]

Tattoos...random masterwork tools that give bonuses to random skills...
Nothing that costs any real amount of gold...
Downtime can't kill you, best to use gold on stuff that can keep you alive :)

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

I like to pick up an airship and use the room/building rules to deck out the inside as a lavish little mobile home. Why have a yacht when you can have a flying yacht?

[Mark Hoover 330]

My players approach spending gold, or really playing PF1, like this:

1. Can I use this money to give me a mechanical bonus in succeeding at combat?

2. If not, can I spend this money on a necessity such as a boat since we're planning an ocean adventure

If the answer is no to both of these, the money remains on their person or in a secure location at home, until the answer can be yes.

None of the players in my game have ever stated that they've changed the clothing their characters wear. They have never overtly stated that they are cleaning, mending, or otherwise improving any of the mundane gear that their character owns. None of them own any masterwork tools, save for the Investigator/Wizard who has masterwork thieve's tools.

In 2 of my campaigns I track cost of living. PCs have, to my accounting, always chosen the 3 GP/MO option meaning they live the most menial lives that they can when in their home town. Both of these campaigns also feature the PCs owning Businesses and running Teams during Downtime, so I don't dig too much into the details or minutiae. However, if you put it all together, these PCs are likely adventuring in the same clothes and mundane gear that they've had for months.

Their businesses are businessy, no frills. They have no "home" to speak of; in both campaigns the PCs live in a Room contained within the suite of Rooms that makes up their business. None of them own vehicles or mounts save for the paladin who received one from his god. They possess no utility magic items so they go everywhere on foot or by Dimension Door.

Not a single one of any of the PCs, across three campaigns, owns a piece of art, mundane jewelry, an extra set of clothing, or any physical affectations. None of them have any distinguishing marks, tattoos, or scars unless I FORCE one on them as a narrative device from damage inflicted. They have no unique Arcane Marks; they have no titles, deeds, or fiefs. Their Cohorts only exist as a means to generate magic items - in one campaign, one player consistently forgets his own Cohort's name when I ask him.

If there's ANYTHING I miss about OSR D&D, it's not the mechanics or gameplay, it's the fact that if you hit name level you got some kind of "stronghold." I remember spending hours, even in college, designing layouts on graph paper, making up banners or insignias, brainstorming unique mount options for elite troops, etc. My characters usually had at least THAT to differentiate themselves from the rest of the NPCs of the world, if not other more personal things like always wearing a scarlet cape or unique belts/cod pieces.

I have no idea what any of the PCs in my games ACTUALLY look like - none of the players has any character art of them. Only one player has any detail as to some kind of signature weapon her character wields. The businesses they run are a collection of Rooms and Teams as read from the books, so there is nothing really unique about them and the players themselves have no floorplans or anything, just words and spreadsheets.

Maybe I'm just heading into another wave of GM burnout.

[pad300]

Define "neccesary"...
I will happily use (abuse) the downtime rules if available...Even if you are commissioning magic item construction from someone else, paying them in capital from businesses/teams is 50% off (never mind making your own at 25% of cost). Not to mention some buildings have significant benefits (summoning chamber anyone?)...
As I like the Hedonistic drawback, there are definitely PC's carrying around fine wine, books of poetry and tobacco...

[Hugo Rune]

I strongly encourage my players to join or establish organisations. An awful lot of the character's fortune goes into enhancing the organisation and their place in it. I use the downtime rules but do not allow influence or magic to be bought; they must be roleplayed or earned through the character's position and standing in the organisation.

[Neriathale]

Daisy the half-orc bloodrager has spent a lot of her "spare" cash on cookery books, very sharp knives, expensive cooking equipment and all the herbs and spices she can fit in those pockets of her handy haversack that aren't dedicated to the travelling cellar. She visits every restaurant / inn she can and asks to try the special to see if it's something she can add to her repetoire.

[Name Violation]

Yaks. Lots of yaks.
And armor for the yaks.
And tuskblades for the yaks.

Usually I combat train the yaks myself.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

Multiple sets of clothing and jewelry, houses and stuff inside, domains. social efforts, fancy meals and entertainment, etc. We've spent money on this sort of thing ever since we got out of our first dungeon and bought a house to have as base of operations back in middle school.

At the risk of going all "I blame the parents", I think much of the 'problem' of players not spending money on anything but gear is the GM's fault. I rarely say this about games but I think it is somewhat true for this sort of thing. If you run a game where there is little else than murderhoboing then don't be surprised if players aren't too keen on lugging around items that don't help them win. Even if you give them the opportunity to go beyond gear, some players will not pick up on the possibility or point of it without some (none too) gentle prodding in that direction.
However, it seems as though the OP's players are intentionally ignoring everything and short of forcing the PCs into positions where they need to spend money on non-gear things (a valid tactic, btw) there seems to be no helping them.

Maybe I'm just spoiled by my groups, but nowadays magic items and cash are less interesting to my players than art objects. Part of it is making all items sound interesting. Instead of just 'a fancy painting worth 500gp' or 'marble statue worth 200 gp', they have proper descriptions such as 'a high class woman of X culture with heavy stylized features and poses reminiscent of Y real world art style", and 'a dwarf warrior with antiquated armor in a lifelike pose of victory over a fallen foe. Roll K.. History to see if you recognize the scene it is depicting'.
My players will spend more time dividing these sorts of things among themselves and figuring out how to decorate their homes than getting new gear and updating character sheets. (though to be fair at this point one of my groups has been 20th level for more than a year and don't really need any more gear).

[Skrayper]

pad300 wrote:

Define "neccesary"...

I will happily use (abuse) the downtime rules if available...Even if you are commissioning magic item construction from someone else, paying them in capital from businesses/teams is 50% off (never mind making your own at 25% of cost).

How on earth does that work?

[pad300]

Skrayper wrote:

pad300 wrote:

Define "neccesary"...

I will happily use (abuse) the downtime rules if available...Even if you are commissioning magic item construction from someone else, paying them in capital from businesses/teams is 50% off (never mind making your own at 25% of cost).

How on earth does that work?

Businesses/teams can be used by their owner to generate either GP income or Capital income. Capital comes in 4 types (labor, goods, influence, magic), each of which can only be used for certain things, but has an assigned GP value; For example a point of magic capital has a value of 100 gp. If your business generates the capital you are trying to buy, you can purchase it at 1/2 price; eg if your business generated 5 pts of magic, you could buy those 5 points at 1/2 price (5*100/2=250 gp). You can then spend said 5 magic capital (at a value of 500 gp), to do a limited subset of things. Specific example of activities that you can spend magic capital towards include Craft Magic Items ("You may spend Magic towards the crafting cost." pg84 UCampaign), add spells to your spellbook (ibid), Research a spell (p86)... (It does not specifically say you can use capital to purchase magic items, but you can use capital for purchases...)

[Set]

Random acts of futile goodness. It seems like every town has someone hobbling around on a peg-leg or missing an eye because they couldn't afford regeneration, or is about to lose the family farm because of a bad harvest, or some similar sob-story, I've had characters drop everything and try to fix every NPCs personal sad story, and kind of ignore the actual world-ending threat-of-the-week.

I try to encourage this, but not to the point of it becoming plot-derailing (and have noticed when I occasionally succumb to the urge to 'fix' sad NPC stories that some GMs get adversarial about it and turn it into a suck-spiral where everything your character does gets undone or results in an even more depressing outcome, so I tend to keep that urge under control when dealing with an unfamiliar GM).

"Yes, you built an orphanage for the surviving kids, but the person you left behind is selling them into slavery!" "You sacked that person, but there was a fire, and now all that's left is scorched ruins and an attic whisperer!" Ugh.

[Today is a good day to... halp]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

None of the players in my game have ever stated that they've changed the clothing their characters wear. They have never overtly stated that they are cleaning, mending, or otherwise improving any of the mundane gear that their character owns. None of them own any masterwork tools, save for the Investigator/Wizard who has masterwork thieve's tools.

In 2 of my campaigns I track cost of living. PCs have, to my accounting, always chosen the 3 GP/MO option meaning they live the most menial lives that they can when in their home town. Both of these campaigns also feature the PCs owning Businesses and running Teams during Downtime, so I don't dig too much into the details or minutiae. However, if you put it all together, these PCs are likely adventuring in the same clothes and mundane gear that they've had for months.

Their businesses are businessy, no frills. They have no "home" to speak of; in both campaigns the PCs live in a Room contained within the suite of Rooms that makes up their business. None of them own vehicles or mounts save for the paladin who received one from his god. They possess no utility magic items so they go everywhere on foot or by Dimension Door.

Not a single one of any of the PCs, across three campaigns, owns a piece of art, mundane jewelry, an extra set of clothing, or any physical affectations. None of them have any distinguishing marks, tattoos, or scars unless I FORCE one on them as a narrative device from damage inflicted. They have no unique Arcane Marks; they have no titles, deeds, or fiefs. Their Cohorts only exist as a means to generate magic items - in one campaign, one player...

Since they seem more beer & pretzel/minimalist and expect mechanical advantages in exchange, mebbe the faction mechanics from the faction guide might interest them? Or gets them to setup at some unique place (something that gives an ingame advantage, like auto-success on some desired ritual or they gotta have a mcguffin from a very prissy, image conscious group/nation/hoi-polloi) but they gotta build and/or dress up accordingly and participate in cultural-stuff to yer exacting guidelines? ;)

PS. dependin' on how literal they gets with the rules, it can put things off the rails, so caution should be advised when going this route?

[Mark Hoover 330]

For a while I DID think it was me, my GMing style. Back when I first met some of the folks I game with I was running a megadungeon in a dark, gritty part of my setting so there wasn't much reason to buy anything but weapons and armor.

That was 10 years ago now though. Since then I've lightened the mood of my games. I also changed up the way I describe loot. Typically the actual money is labeled "mixed coins worth 'x' gold pieces." The hard currency just isn't that important.

Instead I focus on the items. Art objects and magic items get vivid descriptions, sometimes with historical flavor added in. Gems are portrayed by color, cut, and even style; some of the opaque stones are not cut as gems but fashioned into beads and kept loose or on strings or a leather thong.

I do try to add background elements in the setting too. There are orphans scattered about the main city in one campaign. In another, the forest magically overgrew an entire ward of the city and the campaign begins soon after this growth was halted; homelessness and other social ills are obvious in this ward, which also serves as the home of the adventurer's guild.

So I'm TRYING to encourage my players to engage with this stuff, but not forcing them to. Frankly I really think it comes down to play style and involvement with the hobby itself.

As the GM, but also as the kind of person I am, I'm usually thinking about the game between sessions. Even when I get to be a player I go over notes or draw stuff from the session or something, just 'cuz I like gaming.

With all the players between my three games, my one consistent frustration is that even if it's only been a few days since the last session we need a recap to refresh the players on what's going on. They don't think at all about the game between sessions. They all seem to know the mechanics of PF really well and some of them are better rules lawyers than I am but the actual plot or setting just doesn't seem to interest them whether I'm running my own stuff, pre-made campaign material or when we play an AP.

[Cevah]

Here are my two PF character stuff not strictly

Atembe, High Priest of Desna [Return of the Rune Lords]

Explorer's outfit, white, w/Sunsilk -- color helps with wind walk, sunsilk is DR
Explorer's outfit, white -- spare outfit
Hat of Disguise -- for when you must avoid notice
Azlant Pendant -- bump that skill
Ioun Stone (Magenta Prism (cracked)) -- bump that skill
Ioun Stone (Orange Prism) -- bump that caster level
Ioun Stone (Scarlet and Blue Sphere) -- max that skill
Clockwork Songbird (w/poppet) -- cheerleader for battle
Poppet -- storable servant that can fly, carrying me if needed
Rune Guardian (w/me) -- summon monsters to help in battle (SM2 @ CL7)
Healer's Satchel, Specialized -- lets me be a better healer w/o spells, including ability drain
Extraction Scarificator -- what half orc can resist this way to heal more?

Cevah, Pirate Lord: [Skull & Shackles]

Officially a "merchant":
Expedition Pavilion -- when you have to camp, do it in style
Fleet: flagship and 7 others -- lost several ships in AP so I made more
Chellish Flags and Guidebook -- false flag time for piracy
Mapmakers -- ships need good maps, so I have 5 making them for my people
Partner in shipbuilder's business -- I make (and recover) ships and sell them.
Custom: Pillow of Minor Dream (1/2 days) -- communicate with shipbuilder partner
Wood harvesting business -- needed to build ships
Custom: animated boat -- used by wood harvesting business
Custom: charm: Appraise +2 -- bump that skill
Merchant's Scales -- bump that skill
GM Book: Guide: Linguistics (Ghol-Gan, Pirates) +2 -- bump that skill
Book of Letters -- bump that skill
Blue Book -- bump that skill

Leadership and diplomacy items:
Feats: Leadership and Dynasty Founder giving lots of followers: 1840/184/92/48/24/12/8/4 -- when you rule, you need people
Groups: information gatherers, spy network, gossip generators, covens, magic crafters, crafters, ninjas
Diadem of Inspiring Rule -- more followers
Suzerain Scepter -- more followers
Custom: Farsight Mirror (Mirror Sight at will @ CL5) -- information & spy network
Custom: charm: Profession(Sailor) +2 -- for my ship's pilot
Ring of Austere Majesty -- diplomacy/intimidate bonuses
Pirate's outfit, fancy, Masterwork: +2 Diplomacy (Pirates) -- when I need to make an impression
Pirate's outfit, basic -- when I'm on my ship
Monk's outfit -- when on vacation
Jewelry -- needed for fancy outfit
Hat of Disguise -- sometimes, I want to look like someone else
Founder, several settlements -- housing etc. for businesses, followers, and Pirate Lord HQ

Coven (my cohort is a hag):
Tin Imp -- instant creature (also flies)
Shawl of the Crone -- make creature count for a coven
Ebony Fly -- flight for me

Shipbuilding and crafting:
Lyre of Building (have 2) -- build/repair ships, use twice a week
Custom: Animated Dock -- Can sail, fly, and swim. Used to dive and collect a sunken ship so I can loot, repair, and sell
Custom: Skull of Ghost Crew; Unseen Crew 1/day @ CL10 -- instant crew for a ship, including the Animated Dock
Cloak of the Manta ray -- breath underwater
Vest of the Deep (chest) -- allow me to dive deep, especially when I command the Animated Dock
Custom: Belt of Crafter's Fortune 1/day -- bump that skill
Custom: charm: Craft(Weapons) +2 -- bump that skill
Ring of Craft(Ships) +10 -- bump that skill
Artisan Tools (Weapons), Masterwork -- bump that skill
Bard Follower -- Uses Lyres [Skill: Craft(Ships) 23; Perform (Strings) 17]
Construct Maker -- makes some of the constructs I use

/cevah

[Sysryke]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

a totally justified, sad, and detailed lament

It sounds like, for better or worse, all of you players right now fall into the power gamer, or hack and slash type. I suppose they could also be explorer/investigator types. But, it seems none of them are the actor or storyteller types. Nothing wrong with that style of play, but it seems like you need that a bit more than they do.

If you all are good enough friends outside of the game, it may be time for a frank discussion. See if your player's even notice the lack; and if they care if they do notice. It sounds like it's time to shake things up a bit. Maybe you can offer small, but still real, mechanical incentives for more flavorful descriptions and roleplay. These could be small xp rewards, situational modifiers, or small NPC boons or favors on par with traits.

The next thing I would ask/consider, is do you only/always GM, or are you ever a player? I know for many players there is a strong preference to mostly/only play as party member or GM, but maybe it's time for you to get on the other side of the screen for a while. I know social distancing is playing havoc with many right now, but it might be time for you to find a group you can play with occasionally. Or, ask if one of your players might be willing to run an alternate campaign every x number of sessions.

You can't always avoid burn out, but if you can talk openly with your players and come up with some infusion of new ideas, you might be able to save yourself. If you all talk about it, then even just the discussion might help you tolerate your player's mostly running like a video game. No disrespect meant to your games, or their play, just wanting to help.