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I'm getting ready to start running this AP for my wife and son as a backup game when the other players for our regular Pathfinder APs aren't available, but having read through the first two books I’ve gotten really into the plot and I’m looking forward to getting started. I do have a few questions for those of you running it now or who have already been through it:
1. They are each going to play two characters, but are considering a party without any casters: Envoy, Operative, Vanguard, and either a Mechanic or Biohacker. I have only read the first two books so far, but given how much less important spellcasting is in Starfinder than in Pathfinder, and how skill-heavy the first two books are, it seems as though this could work. Has anyone else run this AP (or other campaign) for a party without casters?
2. How much did your players know about “The Unseen” when you started book 1? Did they even know that the AP is about The Unseen?
I’m sure I’ll have more questions as we get started. Thanks in advance!
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1. They are each going to play two characters, but are considering a party without any casters: Envoy, Operative, Vanguard, and either a Mechanic or Biohacker... Has anyone else run this AP (or other campaign) for a party without casters?2. How much did your players know about “The Unseen” when you started book 1?
First of all, welcome! We number legion! Er...well, maybe a dozen of us. Ahem.
Regarding Question 1: my party lacked a proper spell caster until Book 4, where I began supporting them with an NPC technomancer who is in Book 3 but was supposed to die. I play him in a light support role, and as a useful mouthpiece for when their investigations sometimes get sidetracked.
I'm a bit more concerned that there's no tank/beater in your party. I see a Vanguard, but honestly don't have much experience with them. Also, Mechanic is definitely helpful with the many computer-related sleuthing tasks that come up more and more in later books. (Exocortex all the way though, drones are annoying.)
For Question 2: most of my party's players didnt do much reading about the setting beforehand, so I gave a brief summary of "current threats to the Pact Worlds" which included a casual mention of the Unseen. One of my players, though, made up his mind that his character is already a paranoid ex-detective who is on a mission to find a missing partner, so he was first down the rabbit hole. In short, they adapt as they go--so long as they know this is a mystery/espionage/murder type adventure.
The hardest part...is likely the wee little fact about their in-story origins. They should be suspecting foul play and weirdness from the end of book 1, and the later books should occasionally reinforce that, but the Book 5 confirmation can still turn some players' heads upside down.
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We're halfway through Book 3 (went to 3h biweekly sessions in Sep so we are going slooooowly). We have an Envoy, Soldier, Operative, and Solarian so no spellcasting to speak of. Envoy focuses on engineering, Operative on computers - both have been invaluable. I can honestly say we have not yet cast a spell, and they've been able to proceed just fine. Just make sure your skills are covered with the longterm intention of covering starship roles.
On the question of Unseen knowledge, I say less is more. I like the approach above from SpiderOrc with "current threats". In my game, I think of the party as a "weapon X" of the greys to combat the reptoids - but that's part of what they are figuring out. Players should think it's a regular AP and they play a story where they slowly realize they actually ARE the unseen. I think that's what the AP is really about.
Would love to see a campaign journal from you! I'm thinking I'll start mine back up from Book 3 start.
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Thank you both!
As it turns out, my wife chose technomancer over mechanic for her second character (she decided on a vanguard early on), so they've got some spellcasting handled, and two characters trained in medicine. @SpiderOrc, based on the first combat, the vanguard is going to do just fine as a tank and damage dealer; I think the envoy may dip a level in soldier to get heavy armor proficiency and some better weapons along the way as well.
I'm not sure whether my players have read the "Current Threats" section in the CRB, but I did refer to this as the "X-Files AP" when we were discussing what to play, so they’ve got some idea what they’re in for but no specifics. I’m hoping that at some point I can let them read the paranoid rantings of the conspiracy theorists that are published after the adventures in books 2, 3, and 4, because they are just so good, but they do also give away a bit of the plot of the next book. Maybe if I give them out a book or two behind - they could read the book about the greys after the end of book 3, the reptoids at the end of book 4, and the dyscepskians when they’ve finished book 5 and are about to start the final chapter.
For house rules, I’ve decided to give the PCs each an extra skill point at level 1 to use for their professions. I haven’t decided whether to continue that at each level, but at least they’re all trained in one appropriate profession skill for their themes. I’m also going to try giving out Plot Twist Cards as a more improvisational replacement for the Hero Point mechanic in Pathfinder, which we’ve used in our home campaigns for years.
Would love to see a campaign journal from you! I'm thinking I'll start mine back up from Book 3 start.
I’ll give it a shot, but I have no idea if I’ll be able to keep up with it - it took me almost 3 hours to write up our first session, although that includes character introductions. For what it’s worth, though here it is.
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Another question, this time about who the PCs are clones of. I've read through most of the rest of the books in the AP - just about to finish reading book 6 - and as far as I can tell, the only original of any of the PCs who is specifically identified in the AP is Erem. I'm happy to come up with others, but I'm confused about whether the other PCs are all clones of reptoid imposters, or just some of them.
At the opening of book 1, we are told:
After working long and hard to uncover the reptoids influencing the Pact Worlds’ government and population, Zaxo and his team have orchestrated a plan to replace the imposters and observe the results. Not all these individuals are important leaders. Some are assistants to the powerful, manipulating from the shadows, or hold important technical positions. Zaxo has ordered clones of these individuals from a gray research and development facility in Near Space. The PCs are those clones.
As the players finish their characters, think about who they might be clones of. By examining each character’s strengths and weaknesses, you might be able to determine who they were cloned to replace. The charismatic character might be the clone of a famous holovid star, and the wise, levelheaded one might be the clone of a member of the Pact Council. The grays have created these clones for specific purposes, not all of which are evident to an outside observer. One character might simply be the clone of a low-level bureaucrat whose power can be wielded at just the right moment. You needn’t set this information in stone before starting this Adventure Path, but it’s a good idea to keep it in mind as you play. Later volumes further detail the use of the PCs’ roles.
But at the end of book 6, in "Continuing the Campaign," we get the following prompt:
Faces in the Mirror: After realizing they are actually clones of other people, the PCs might have a difficult time going back to normal life. Some may wish to seek out the beings they were cloned from; but not all of those the grays selected for cloning are benevolent. One of them has learned of their clone and wishes to capture the clone for their own purposes, whether to eliminate a potential threat or to use the clone as a handy replacement should anything go wrong with their own body. Not only that, but more clones resembling the PCs begin appearing all over the Pact Worlds. Did these clones also escape from a different gray facility or was their release deliberate?"
No reptoid would be "benevolent" to a gray clone, but it's even more of a stretch to think that a reptoid imposter would try to use the clone for replacement parts. Reading this adventure prompt together with the Adventure Background in book 1, could it be that the PCs (other than Erem) are not necessarily clones of reptoids, but might instead be clones of people close to important reptoid imposters? Have I missed something? If you've gotten this far, who are your PCs' originals?
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Another question...as far as I can tell, the only original of any of the PCs who is specifically identified in the AP is Erem. I'm happy to come up with others, but I'm confused about whether the other PCs are all clones of reptoid imposters, or just some of them.
OK. So, this is one of the trickiest parts for me as well. However, I definitely interpreted all of the books of this AP as instructing that indeed, every PC is a clone of a Reptoid infiltrator uncovered by the Grays.
This raised some questions for me early on: if the Grays cloned Reptoids...why didn't they get Reptoid clones?
I answered this by deciding to presume that when a Reptoid is in infiltration disguise, their DNA magically matches that of the individual they are copying. Thus, when the Grays clone them, they don't get another Reptoid, but a "locked-in" version of that Reptoid in its disguised form.
Now, getting back to your main question, not every Reptoid is a high-placed official like Erem (whose name I discarded, for my own story reasons*). Some, as the book suggests, may be in positions of subtle power, out of the public eye. Others may be seemingly powerless, but high profile, like celebrities. Some may be specifically powerful, like an industry leader. Or, again, more subtle, like a government under-secretary or senior attache or a company's department head or high-level analyst, not necessarily the CEO.
But yes, every single one of the PCs is a clone of an imposter. Which does make this AP unique in that the overall motivation to learn the truth, defeat the various conspiracies, etc., is heavily tied in to the characters' identities from the end of Book One, making a character death pretty significant. I have definitely been pulling a few punches here and there to keep my players' original characters alive precisely for that reason of continuity, and the expected emotional upheaval that will occur when they discover the truth of their identities at the end of Book 5 (just 2 or 3 sessions away, for me!).
*I decided early on to have the clones' doppelgangers have anagram names of the PCs so as to make it all the more ridiculous and trippy. I have decided that Zaxo's lab Grays for this experiment had a weird Gray sense of clinical humor, and called it "Project Anagram".
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Heh - I like the anagrams. I hope you put up a post about how the big reveal goes.
Thanks. I thought the point was to make duplicates of the imposter reptoids, so I agree, it makes sense to stick with that and disregard that particular "Continuing the Campaign" prompt. One of the characters in my group is a lawful good dwarf vanguard who would make an ideal duplicate of Thylas Starhammer (I'm pretty sure my Erem will be the uplifted bear envoy). Still working out who the originals are for the ysoki operative and strix technomancer - one of them (probably the operative, since hacking is his schtick) will be a cybersecurity consultant and the ex-lover of the person encountered at the start of book 3. I'm considering placing the technomancer as the Defense Against Dark Arts instructor at one of the magic academies described in HMM's article at the end of book 6.
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I'm considering the following house rules - any thoughts? Other house rules people use?
1. Profession skills: Similar to the optional rule for Background Skills in Pathfinder Unchained, each PC receives an extra skill point each level that must be used for a Profession skill of the player's choice. The extra point may be used for the same profession skill each level or for different professions. Characters remain subject to the usual limit that the number of skill ranks in a skill cannot exceed the character's level.
2. Treat Deadly Wounds: We discovered the need for this one after all four PCs failed their Reflex saves against the explosion in the engine room - that's when we realized that the best the PCs could do without drinking a serum of healing would be 1 HP of healing with a medkit on a natural 18 or higher for a 25 (and there was no way to get the additional healing at DC 30). I guess we all had PF2E Medicine checks in mind and hadn't even looked at the SF rule.
House Rule: The DC of a Medicine check to Treat Deadly Wounds is reduced by 5 from the DC shown for each level of medkit. Success at the reduced DC restores 1 Hit Point per level or CR of the creature you are treating, plus your Intelligence modifier. If you exceed the reduced DC by 5 or more, you add double your Intelligence modifier to the amount healed instead. Original rules below for reference:
You can use Medicine to restore Hit Points to a living, wounded creature. This takes 1 minute, and the DC is based on the medical equipment used. If you succeed at the check, you restore 1 Hit Point per level or CR of the creature you are treating. If you exceed the DC by 5 or more, you add your Intelligence modifier to the amount healed. A creature can receive this treatment only once every 24-hour period, unless it is delivered in a medical lab. Most medical labs allow you to treat a creature’s deadly wounds at least twice per day.
Source Starfinder Core Rulebook pg. 219; Level 1; Price 100; Hands 2; Bulk 1
The basic medkit has spray antiseptic, bandages, and handheld instruments designed to examine, explore, and treat common ailments. The basic medkit allows you to attempt DC 25 Medicine checks to treat deadly wounds.
Source Starfinder Core Rulebook pg. 219; Level 5; Price 2,700; Hands 2; Bulk 1
The advanced medkit adds more-advanced and specialized tools to diagnose and treat ailments. The advanced medkit can be used in the same way as a basic medkit, but the DC to treat deadly wounds is only 20, and you gain a +2 insight bonus to Medicine checks to treat drugs, diseases, and poisons. Additionally, you can use an advanced medkit to set up a temporary one-patient medical lab, though this requires 10 minutes. You can then provide long-term care to a single patient using the temporary medical lab, with a DC 30 Medicine check.
3. Upgrading equipment: Gear upgrades are ridiculously expensive. I assume there's a game balance/WBL reason for it, but it's annoying, especially in an AP like this where the PCs spend the first 3 books with no opportunity to shop at all.
House Rule: A character may use the crafting rules to upgrade a piece of equipment they already have to a higher level version of the same item at a cost in UPBs equal to the cost of the new, higher level item minus 50-75% of the existing item's listed cost . Excerpt from the relevant section of the original crafting rules below:
To create an item, you must have UPBs with a total value equal to the price of the item to be created. At the GM’s discretion, you can scavenge similar items for parts, allowing 10% of the scavenged item’s value to count toward the UPBs needed. Even magic and hybrid items are created using UPBs, as the Mysticism skill is used to form the materials into runes and specific implements for rituals utilized in the creation of magic devices.
I'm considering the following house rules - any thoughts? Other house rules people use?
I'd be very cautious about your proposed house rule for upgrading weapons, and somewhat cautious about the medicine DC changes.
Remember that with traveling between locations, the party has anywhere from a few hours to a week of downtime, typically on a starship from end of Book 2 onward. They have time to heal by resting normally, and do a daily med check, or twice daily with the medlab/adv kit if I remember correctly. They should also figure out quickly that serums of healing are awesome, and either craft a couple during downtime or buy some when they hit civilaztion finally in Book 4. Many enemies and map locations also have them as loot in Books 4-6.
As for weapons, the hardest part is Book 2 and 3, I think, but the little bit of loot including UPBs for normal upgrading rules should suffice. If you want to give them an edge, just drop in some bonus loot instead. That's just my opinion.
My thoughts on the house rules:
1) Profession: extra professions are nice. This one is fine.
2) Medicine: a 10 min rest to restore stamina is the equivalent of PF2's medicine abilities. I'd recommend either sticking to the rules, or going all in and abandoning stamina for PF2's health and medicine system. Personally I find stamina the superior option for PC survivability post level 2, but whatever works. Just remind your PCs that when they're low on stamina it's time to play cautiously.
3) Instead of a house rule, I would suggest just dropping more loot. Drop loot you know your players want, and a surplus of UPBs so they can craft other items. APs are stingy with money, you can drop extra and not worry too much.
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Thanks, SpiderOrc and Garretmander - when two out of two more experienced SFRPG GM's suggest that a pair of house rules would hurt the balance of the game, I take that seriously. I'm sticking with the extra skill rank for Profession, but I'll drop the other two ideas and stick with the old GM standby of handing out loot in the form of serums of healing and UPBs. I had Luzo give them each a serum of healing to help them heal from the explosion in engineering (Event 5) - I would think it would be bad for a ship's reputation to have passengers disembark at Absalom Station with untreated injuries from a shipboard accident - and as a reward for finding his tail ring, Grath added them the half-brick of UPBs remaining from when he crafted the burst weapon fusion seal in addition to giving them the fusion seal itself.
As it is, the PCs have been leaving all kinds of loot on the table - the captain's credstick with 1,000 credits and Trostinek's ion tape and zipstick come to mind, but there is probably more (which is weird - when we play Pathfinder, our group has always taken the attitude of “if it’s not nailed down, grab it, and if it is nailed down, that’s why the fighter carries a crowbar”). The credstick probably doesn't matter because they don't have anywhere to spend it (and won't for a loooong time, although they don't know that), but I did suggest that if they've got cash, Grath would probably be happy to sell them as many UPBs from the ship's stores as he thinks he can get away with. Part of the problem is that crafting in Pathfinder 1E is so time-consuming and feat-intensive that even saving 50% off the cost of items (more for non-magical items) is not enough of an incentive for a lot of characters to put in the effort. I'm pushing them to think about it now because a lot of the loot in books 2 and 3 comes in the form of UPBs, so they need to be ready to use their crafting opportunities when they come up.
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I’ve been curious about the lack of dedicated GM reference threads for each book of this AP - which are at the top of the subforum for every other PF and SF adventure path - and finally decided to just go ahead and set them up:
1 - The Chimera Mystery
2 - Flight of the Sleepers
3 - Deceivers' Moon
4 - The Hollow Cabal
5 - The Cradle Infestation
6 - Puppets Without Strings