With the APG put, I was wondering if there was a way to make a respectable Arcane Archer yet, or is it something that is better saved for the eventual Magus?
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Um... take the Eldritch Archer archetype?
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That's what I get for just using ctrl-f for arcane lol
The Eldritch Archer is also more for "I'm good with a bow, and want to do some magic" than the other way around, since the hook of the "imbue arrow" analogue is that you get to use your dex and bow proficiency to deliver the spell instead of your cha and spell proficiency.
You're also pretty limited in terms of spells (like one slot/level), since the Eldritch Archer doesn't have a Breadth feat.
Not too long to wait to see what the Magus is going to be like though.
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And the Eldritch Archer is a dream if one plays with double class rules
if you're a caster already you'll have more spells, and if you have a caster archetype already you can pick up breadth from there as well though.
If you're a caster though, why are you wanting to use dex and bow proficiency to deliver spells? Even the Warpriest eventually gets master casting, but is limited to expert bows.
I agree that this might be bonkers in a double-class variant though.
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That's what I get for just using ctrl-f for arcane lol
That makes sense. I wasn't sure what you were asking. With your avatar name I thought I might be missing a joke. :)
It's Eldritch Archer because you can use any of the four traditions with this archetype. This version of Imbue arrow is called Eldritch Shot, and it works with spells that require an attack roll and take less than 3 actions to cast. Not including Focus Spells that means:
Cantrips
Acid Splash (Arcane and Primal)
Divine Lance (Divine)
Produce Flame (Arcane and Primal)
Ray of Frost (Arcane and Primal)
Telekinetic Projectile (Arcane and Occult)
Level 1
Hydraulic Push (Arcane and Primal)
Ray of Enfeeblement (Arcane, Divine, and Occult)
Shocking Grasp (Arcane and Primal)
Level 2
Acid Arrow (Arcane and Primal)
Spiritual Weapon (Divine and Occult)
Telekinetic Maneuver (Arcane and Occult)
Level 3
Chilling Darkness (Divine)
Searing Light (Divine and Primal)
Level 5
Spiritual Guardian (Divine)
Level 6
Disintegrate (Arcane)
Level 8
Polar Ray (Arcane and Primal)
Arcane casting does give you the most options.
if you're a caster already you'll have more spells, and if you have a caster archetype already you can pick up breadth from there as well though.If you're a caster though, why are you wanting to use dex and bow proficiency to deliver spells? Even the Warpriest eventually gets master casting, but is limited to expert bows.
I agree that this might be bonkers in a double-class variant though.
You just take a multiclass dedication and get spells from them instead of taking Eldritch Archer spellcasting feats.
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Problem with taking a multiclass dedication is that it delays Eldritch Archer by two levels, and that's assuming you take an archetype feat for every class feat. Best way to get utility magic on your Eldritch Archer is probably just to play an ancestry that gets innate spells.
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Remember that focus spells works for the Eldritch Shot too, meaning that stuff like Fire Ray and Elemental Toss are also good options. Champion can easily get a focus spell with the Attack trait.
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The variety of damage types, the automatic heightening, and the reusability make cantrips really useful for Eldritch Shot. They are especially useful if you are using a non-casting base class. I just finished adding the APG information to my Guide to Acquiring Common Cantrips for anyone who wants to pick up a few.
I also want to point out that Eldritch Archer has a lot of cool options in addition to Eldritch Shot.
My daughter is going to take the Eldritch Archer at level 6 (next level now). She's an archer fighter who wants to have more of a divine influence from Iomedae. She plans on taking Divine Lance. This choice is due to the Paladin of Iomedae in our group converting her religious beliefs.
Precision Rangers can add 1d8 to the pot of a spell + arrow. Humans can grab Gravity Weapon and Hunted Shot too.
Hunted shot is good for rounds where you have to move, and it can actually be paired with a normal cantrip (especially a non-attack one)
Investigators never waste 3 actions and a spell slot to see if they MAYBE hit.
(also, there are fewer things more satisfying than seeing you'll miss critting by 1 and shooting a Shocking Grasp Arrow)
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if you're a caster already you'll have more spells, and if you have a caster archetype already you can pick up breadth from there as well though.If you're a caster though, why are you wanting to use dex and bow proficiency to deliver spells? Even the Warpriest eventually gets master casting, but is limited to expert bows.
I agree that this might be bonkers in a double-class variant though.
more spells means that you can more easily be buffing yourself to overcome the proficiency gap.
A warpriest as an example could easily provide Heroism on himself to overcome that fault.
I'm not saying it's better to be caster->eldritch compared to martial->eldritch, just saying that it's posible, and it's an alternative playstyle.
As most things in PF2, an archetype doesn't define a character as much as the actual class, so even if someone makes a Warpriest Eldritch, he's still a Cleric at heart and has the full array of cleric abilities behind him. He will be a completely different thing than a martial Eldritch.
To add onto this; a Caster focused Eldritch Archer gains Range.
Shortbow’s 60 ft to Heavy Crossbow’s 120 ft, and up to 5 increments of that range. A number of common offensive spells and cantrips have particularly short range. It allows for some potentially interesting play.
Investigators never waste 3 actions and a spell slot to see if they MAYBE hit.
(also, there are fewer things more satisfying than seeing you'll miss critting by 1 and shooting a Shocking Grasp Arrow)
How are investigators doing that? Devise A Stratagem takes an action and must be used in the same round, and the spell arrow thingie is a 3 action activity...
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How are investigators doing that? Devise A Stratagem takes an action and must be used in the same round, and the spell arrow thingie is a 3 action activity...Investigators never waste 3 actions and a spell slot to see if they MAYBE hit.
(also, there are fewer things more satisfying than seeing you'll miss critting by 1 and shooting a Shocking Grasp Arrow)
If the target is your lead then Devise Stratagem becomes free action.
If the target is your lead then Devise Stratagem becomes free action.How are investigators doing that? Devise A Stratagem takes an action and must be used in the same round, and the spell arrow thingie is a 3 action activity...Investigators never waste 3 actions and a spell slot to see if they MAYBE hit.
(also, there are fewer things more satisfying than seeing you'll miss critting by 1 and shooting a Shocking Grasp Arrow)
Oh, well you wouldn't expect to rely on that beibg the case, though, right?
1 target per fight is what annoys me about the investigator and only from lvl 10 on. Great class for boss fights tho.
I finally got around to searching the Focus Spells. The ones with attack rolls that take less than three actions are:
Cleric
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1
Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1
Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1
I have no idea how Hand of the Apprentice would work with Eldritch Shot, but technically it qualifies.
To add onto this; a Caster focused Eldritch Archer gains Range.
Shortbow’s 60 ft to Heavy Crossbow’s 120 ft, and up to 5 increments of that range. A number of common offensive spells and cantrips have particularly short range. It allows for some potentially interesting play.
I think this and the use of Focus spells is really under appreciated.
I have a level 7 Ranger/Edritch Archer. He took occult for in character reasons. His telekinetic projectile now has a 120 ft range, no penalties, instead of 30. And has a +1 item bonus and expert proficiency.
I finally got around to searching the Focus Spells. The ones with attack rolls that take less than three actions are:
Cleric
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1I have no idea how Hand of the Apprentice would work with Eldritch Shot, but technically it qualifies.
i don't think Hand qualifies because it needs to hurl a held weapon.
Since eldritch shot is a single activity that requires you to "wield a bow" and since wielding a 1+ hands weapon means that you hold it in 1 hand and the other hand is free, you can't simultaneously both hold a weapon to throw with Hand of the Apprentice AND wield the bow that you are shooting the arrow with.
I meant that it meets the two requirements given in Eldritch Shot. It takes less than three actions to cast and uses an attack roll.
But a hand crossbow only requires one hand, so there is at least one way to avoid the problem of insufficient hands.
I finally got around to searching the Focus Spells. The ones with attack rolls that take less than three actions are:
Cleric
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1I have no idea how Hand of the Apprentice would work with Eldritch Shot, but technically it qualifies.
I think you may have missed:
Charged Javelin, Sun Blade, and Bottle the Storm.
Sun Blade requires a sword, and Bottle the Storm is not a spellcast to attack, so only really Charged Javelin applies. Charged Javelin does feel pretty noteworthy for an Eldritch Archer, though.
I meant requirements for the spell to qualify, not the Requirement for the feat. But I' just playing Devil's Advocate here to explore possibilities. :)
I'm still not sure how, or if, HotA would work, but I'm also not sure why you'd use it with Eldritch Shot. HotA already has an absurdly large range, and only takes up a single action. I'd almost always think it was better to use it by itself and then have two actions left for casting another spell.
I finally got around to searching the Focus Spells. The ones with attack rolls that take less than three actions are:
Cleric
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1I have no idea how Hand of the Apprentice would work with Eldritch Shot, but technically it qualifies.
I think you may have missed:
Charged Javelin, Sun Blade, and Bottle the Storm.
Sun Blade requires a sword, and Bottle the Storm is not a spellcast to attack, so only really Charged Javelin applies. Charged Javelin does feel pretty noteworthy for an Eldritch Archer, though.
Bottle the Storm is a reaction, so it doesn't fit the criteria. I missed the other two because they are lacking the attack tag. So we currently have the following Focus Spells which use an attack roll and take one or two actions to cast.
Cleric
Charged Javelin 1
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1
Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1
Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1
Knights of Lastwall
Sun Blade 2
Hand of the Apprentice and Sun Blade are problematic for use with Eldritch Shot, but the rest should work.
I meant requirements for the spell to qualify, not the Requirement for the feat. But I' just playing Devil's Advocate here to explore possibilities. :)
I'm still not sure how, or if, HotA would work, but I'm also not sure why you'd use it with Eldritch Shot. HotA already has an absurdly large range, and only takes up a single action. I'd almost always think it was better to use it by itself and then have two actions left for casting another spell.
depends. If you are multiclass wizard you may just be trained in spell rolls and just have something like 14 (or even 10 if you somehow bypass stat requirements) Int, while on the other hand you have a +2 bow, master proficiency on it, and 20 Dex.
That said, i don't think you can even GET hand of the apprentice if you are not straight up wizard due to "universalist" requirement, so all the above may be moot, but they serve as a guideline for other focus powers that you are terrible with as far as spell attack rolls go.
You do need to have Wizard as your base class to get HotA, so I was approaching this as a Wizard/Eldritch Archer. That isn't a combo that I would ever play, though. If I took Eldritch Archer, I'd want a class that gets at least Master Weapon Proficiency. Since I love playing high Int characters, Investigator would be my first choice right now. Mastermind Rogue would be second.
Missing Whithering Grasp as well. For some reason it does not have the attack trait.
Missing Whithering Grasp as well. For some reason it does not have the attack trait.
That seems to be a frequently occurring error in PF2. Crowdsourcing like this is really helpful to counter that.
-----
The following Focus Spells use an attack roll and take one or two actions to cast.
Cleric
Charged Javelin 1
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1
Withering Grasp 1
Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1
Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1
Knights of Lastwall
Sun Blade 2
Missing Whithering Grasp as well. For some reason it does not have the attack trait.That seems to be a frequently occurring error in PF2. Crowdsourcing like this is really helpful to counter that.
-----
The following Focus Spells use an attack roll and take one or two actions to cast.
Cleric
Charged Javelin 1
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1
Withering Grasp 1Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1Knights of Lastwall
Sun Blade 2
I had compiled a similar list (but for Magical Trickster, not necessarily Eldritch Archer) so let me compare for more.
---
For non-focus spells, I have Snowball, and a maybe for Spiritual Guardian and Tangling Creepers. I lack Tanglefoot on my cantrip list (no damage), but I believe it is plausible for Eldritch Shot. Looking today, I see Admonishing Ray that should be good, from the new Agents of Edgewatch AP.
---
For Focus spells, a note that Sun Blade is a Champion Focus spell, with Knights of Lastwall being an access sort of category, if I recall.
I have a ??? regarding Malicious Shadow, Impaling Briars, and Draconic Barrage, but I don't think any apply for Eldritch Archer.
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I finally got around to searching the Focus Spells. The ones with attack rolls that take less than three actions are:
Cleric
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1I have no idea how Hand of the Apprentice would work with Eldritch Shot, but technically it qualifies.
i don't think Hand qualifies because it needs to hurl a held weapon.
Since eldritch shot is a single activity that requires you to "wield a bow" and since wielding a 1+ hands weapon means that you hold it in 1 hand and the other hand is free, you can't simultaneously both hold a weapon to throw with Hand of the Apprentice AND wield the bow that you are shooting the arrow with.
Player: I'll use Eldritch Shot
DM: Okay, with what spell?
Player: Hand of the Apprentice!
DM:. . . As you nock the arrow and are about to let it fly. . . The Bow flies from your grasp. It hurtles across the battlefield and smacks the enemy with a definitive THUD before whisking across the sky a second time and returning to your hand, perfectly unscathed; meanwhile the arrow is still in your other hand.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I finally got around to searching the Focus Spells. The ones with attack rolls that take less than three actions are:
Cleric
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1I have no idea how Hand of the Apprentice would work with Eldritch Shot, but technically it qualifies.
i don't think Hand qualifies because it needs to hurl a held weapon.
Since eldritch shot is a single activity that requires you to "wield a bow" and since wielding a 1+ hands weapon means that you hold it in 1 hand and the other hand is free, you can't simultaneously both hold a weapon to throw with Hand of the Apprentice AND wield the bow that you are shooting the arrow with.
Player: I'll use Eldritch Shot
DM: Okay, with what spell?
Player: Hand of the Apprentice!
DM:. . . As you nock the arrow and are about to let it fly. . . The Bow flies from your grasp. It hurtles across the battlefield and smacks the enemy with a definitive THUD before whisking across the sky a second time and returning to your hand, perfectly unscathed; meanwhile the arrow is still in your other hand.
Player: My Eldritch Archer nocks his Greatsword as he prepares to cast Hand of the Apprentice as an Eldritch Shot...
I had compiled a similar list (but for Magical Trickster, not necessarily Eldritch Archer) so let me compare for more.
---
For non-focus spells, I have Snowball, and a maybe for Spiritual Guardian and Tangling Creepers. I lack Tanglefoot on my cantrip list (no damage), but I believe it is plausible for Eldritch Shot. Looking today, I see Admonishing Ray that should be good, from the new Agents of Edgewatch AP.---
For Focus spells, a note that Sun Blade is a Champion Focus spell, with Knights of Lastwall being an access sort of category, if I recall.
I have a ??? regarding Malicious Shadow, Impaling Briars, and Draconic Barrage, but I don't think any apply for Eldritch Archer.
I did miss Snowball hiding over there in the World Guide. :)
Spiritual Guardian is already on the first list.
You're right about Tanglefoot. I missed that because it doesn't deal damage, and I was also working from my Magical Trickster list. :)
I hadn't seen Admonishing Ray before. It look good.
I don't think that Tangling Creepers, Impaling Briars, and Draconic Barrage work because they don't require an attack roll. Attacks are optional for those spells.
The whole Knights of Lastwall thing with dropping tags is more complicated than I want to deal with. I'll just leave it as is.
Malicious Shadow does seem to fit the requirements.
Thank you so much for the help! I'll update the lists.
The following spells require an attack roll and take one or two actions to cast.
Cantrips
Acid Splash (Arcane and Primal)
Divine Lance (Divine)
Produce Flame (Arcane and Primal)
Ray of Frost (Arcane and Primal)
Tanglefoot (Arcane and Primal)
Telekinetic Projectile (Arcane and Occult)
Level 1
Admonishing Ray (Arcane and Divine)
Hydraulic Push (Arcane and Primal)
Ray of Enfeeblement (Arcane, Divine, and Occult)
Shocking Grasp (Arcane and Primal)
Snowball (Arcane and Primal)
Level 2
Acid Arrow (Arcane and Primal)
Spiritual Weapon (Divine and Occult)
Telekinetic Maneuver (Arcane and Occult)
Level 3
Chilling Darkness (Divine)
Searing Light (Divine and Primal)
Level 5
Spiritual Guardian (Divine)
Level 6
Disintegrate (Arcane)
Level 8
Polar Ray (Arcane and Primal)
-----
The following Focus spells require an attack roll and take one or two actions to cast.
Cleric
Charged Javelin 1
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1
Withering Grasp 1
Knights of Lastwall
Sun Blade 2
Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1
Witch
Malicious Shadow 3
Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1
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Updating the list based on the new CRB printing.
-----
The following spells require an attack roll and take one or two actions to cast.
Cantrips
Acid Splash (Arcane and Primal)
Divine Lance (Divine)
Produce Flame (Arcane and Primal)
Ray of Frost (Arcane and Primal)
Tanglefoot (Arcane and Primal)
Telekinetic Projectile (Arcane and Occult)
Level 1
Admonishing Ray (Arcane and Divine)
Hydraulic Push (Arcane and Primal)
Ray of Enfeeblement (Arcane, Divine, and Occult)
Shocking Grasp (Arcane and Primal)
Snowball (Arcane and Primal)
Level 2
Acid Arrow (Arcane and Primal)
Telekinetic Maneuver (Arcane and Occult)
Level 3
Chilling Darkness (Divine)
Searing Light (Divine and Primal)
Level 6
Disintegrate (Arcane)
Level 8
Polar Ray (Arcane and Primal)
-----
The following Focus spells require an attack roll and take one or two actions to cast.
Cleric
Charged Javelin 1
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1
Withering Grasp 1
Knights of Lastwall
Sun Blade 2
Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1
Witch
Malicious Shadow 3
Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1
I did the math on this earlier, and it turns out that the item bonuses will generally make it so that Strikes have an equal or higher bonus till around 19. Even past that point, you are avoiding MAP so it is conditionally better than Spell + bow Strike, particularly when using cantrips.if you're a caster already you'll have more spells, and if you have a caster archetype already you can pick up breadth from there as well though.If you're a caster though, why are you wanting to use dex and bow proficiency to deliver spells? Even the Warpriest eventually gets master casting, but is limited to expert bows.
I agree that this might be bonkers in a double-class variant though.
what I dislike about starting as a caster going into eldritch archer, at least w/o free archetype is that you only get access at lvl 12 to it and it's gonna eat up more high level feat slots as well as your build going online extremely late.
But I do like that Elven Weapon Familiarity allows you access to the archetype on any caster w/o further investment, all the martial classes already get training in a bow or all martials otherwise I'd do that.