
Dargath |
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The Battledancer uses the Performance skill to fascinate a foe for panache.
If you gained the feat called Acrobatic Performer... could you use Acrobatics to Perform instead? The feat says “use Acrobatics to perform”. If I use Acrobatic to Perform does that still have synergy with other performance based feats?

Amaya/Polaris |

Ah, that's true. Battledancer says "your Performance check to Perform".
Out of the context of Swashbuckler, though, they would, as mentioned. Fascinating Performance is a non-action that triggers when you use the Perform action. Acrobatic Performer allows you to roll Acrobatics instead of Performance when you use the Perform action, no conditions. Nothing indicates that these can't stack, but keep in mind that you'd still need to keep training Performance to qualify for later ones, and if a feat says something like "roll a Performance check" (as opposed to "use the Perform action"), you can't substitute Acrobatics for that unless your GM is easygoing. For example, you wouldn't be able to use it with Leading Dance, the only Battledancer-intended feat besides Focused Fascination (and thankfully not an invaluable one, generally).
Assuming the idea is that your character isn't possessed of social graces but does have physical grace — which describes a character of mine as well! — I can see why you'd want to use Battledancer with a low Charisma character, but the setup of Swashbuckler seems very specifically intended not to allow the key stat of the class to mix with any of the skills needed for Panache, other than the default one (Tumble Through/Acrobatics).
There are lots of ways you could go here, though: flavor Tumble Through as dancing around an opponent and gain Panache you can then spend or keep, using Acrobatics-based Fascinating Performance for other benefits, or maybe your GM thinks Fascinating Performance's benefits will be about as helpful in the campaign as Tumble Through (it's mostly helpful for drawing attention and tripping up spellcasting from what I can tell) and allows Acrobatic Performer to mix, or maybe you average your Charisma and Dexterity when you want to gain Panache from it, or maybe you just take a -1 to reflect the intention that it not be your key stat. Talk with your GM if it's important, see what they think. If it's not that important, that's cool too.
Perform was no longer a word for a bit there. This happened last time I did research to clarify a rules interaction too. ^_^;

Dargath |
Does the Powerful Leap feat stack benefit with the Flamboyant Athlete feat in so far as how high you can Vertically Leap and how far you can leap?
I’m trying to make a very mobile Ronin type character who moves like the wind and is a graceful warrior, a sword dancer with extreme movement speed and dexterity. Or in other words... Yasuo from League of Legends inspired, as a type of Cloth wearing hyper mobile Samurai from TV and Video Games archetype. The Flamboyant Leap into a finisher really reminds me of his ultimate skill, and he can gain temporary HP which is like his shield, tumble through mimics his E well enough as well as mobile finisher and all the parry feats carry the spirit of his wind wall ability. It’s never going to be 100% exact but the “spirit of the character” can very much be adapted nearly 1 to 1.

HumbleGamer |
I'd go with it Dragath.
If you check the other styles you'll find out that they simply put the skill check name, and since "performance" doesn't have nothing apart learn income, they simply wrote "Performance" check.
If Deception, intimidate or athletics hadn't had "subgroups" then they would have written the same.
It's "unlikely" that Paizo deliberately did something so unfair towards acrobatics.

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It's "unlikely" that Paizo deliberately did something so unfair towards acrobatics.
No, it isn't. I'd say it's quite likely indeed.
All Swashbucklers can use Acrobatics to gain Panache by Tumbling Through. If they want to gain Panache another way they must always use another Skill. I see no reason to believe they intended Battledancers to only need to invest in one stat and Skill ever while all other Swashbucklers need two.

HumbleGamer |
HumbleGamer wrote:It's "unlikely" that Paizo deliberately did something so unfair towards acrobatics.No, it isn't. I'd say it's quite likely indeed.
All Swashbucklers can use Acrobatics to gain Panache by Tumbling Through. If they want to gain Panache another way they must always use another Skill. I see no reason to believe they intended Battledancers to only need to invest in one stat and Skill ever while all other Swashbucklers need two.
That could seem fair, but remember that the other skills are more useful than this one.
- Use 1 action to gain both Panache and give the enemy the flat footed status
- Use 1 action to trip/push/grab and gain panache
- Use 1 action to Intimidate and gain panache
- Use 1 action to bon mot gg and gain panache
...
While the Battledancer...
To you, a fight is a kind of performance art, and you command your foes' attention with mesmerizing motions. You are trained in Performance and gain the Fascinating Performance skill feat. You gain panache during an encounter when the result of your Performance check to Perform exceeds the Will DC of an observing foe, even if the foe isn't fascinated.
... what?
Not to say that skills like "feint" can be also performed through different abilities ( like grovel ), and not a Deception check.
I think the difference is here.
On the one hand it is true that EVERY swashbuckler has to have Acrobatics + 1 different skill.
But on the other hand, EVERY swashbuckler MUST be just using the base skill, and no skills which let you use the subskill.
Then we could talk about balance.

Salamileg |

The benefit of using Perform to get panache is that you can do it from any distance and attempt it repeatedly with no penalty. Plus, the Leading Dance feat is amazing, which already encourages Battle Dancers to invest in Performance. Allowing Acrobatic Performance to get panache is unnecessary for balance.

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To expand on Salamileg's point, all the other options have pretty restrictive use cases. Feint is only vs. people you're adjacent to and vs. their (usually high) Perception while Create Diversion is also vs. Perception and effectively only once per combat, Demoralize can only be used once per target per fight, and a Gymnast's combat maneuvers have the attack trait and thus combo poorly with same turn finishers.
Battle Dancer's Performance has no real effect on the target in the midst of combat, but it's a pretty likely chance to work to gain Panache against anyone who can see you, with no restrictions on how many times you can use it or vs. who. That's a sizable advantage.

HumbleGamer |
To expand on Salamileg's point, all the other options have pretty restrictive use cases. Feint is only vs. people you're adjacent to and vs. their (usually high) Perception while Create Diversion is also vs. Perception and effectively only once per combat, Demoralize can only be used once per target per fight, and a Gymnast's combat maneuvers have the attack trait and thus combo poorly with same turn finishers.
Battle Dancer's Performance has no real effect on the target in the midst of combat, but it's a pretty likely chance to work to gain Panache against anyone who can see you, with no restrictions on how many times you can use it or vs. who. That's a sizable advantage.
Athetics and Feint are top.
Intimidate becomes top by lvl 9 ( you can use it even on immune targets ).Which leaves Wit and Dancer, which are probably the worst for combat ( even if their improved finisher are imo good ).
And out of combat Bon Mod wins.
But, I repeat myself, the issue here is the wording.
If they had said
"you have to roll a DECEPTION/ATHLETICS/INTIMIDATION check"
instead of
"you have to roll a check to feint/diversion or grab/trip/shove or demoralize"
there wouldn't have been any issue.
But since for example there are feat like "Versatile Performance" which allows you to use performance to gain panache on a demoralize check, I am sorry, but we are facing some balance issues.

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Athetics and Feint are top.
According to who? I've seen a lot of people call Feint the worst because it targets Perception, which is much higher than the other possible targets, on average.
Intimidate becomes top by lvl 9 ( you can use it even on immune targets ).
Braggart's level 9 effect is great, but you still need to be within 30 feet and share a language (or invest in Skill Feats) even then.
Which leaves Wit and Dancer, which are probably the worst for combat ( even if their improved finisher are imo good ).
And out of combat Bon Mod wins.
Does it? -3 to Will Saves is probably less useful outside combat than Fascinating Performance in a lot of cases.
Also, I've seen more than one person cite Battle Dancer as one of the better Swashbuckler options. Leading Dance is one of the single best forced movement options in the game.
But, I repeat myself, the issue here is the wording.
If they had said"you have to roll a DECEPTION/ATHLETICS/INTIMIDATION check"
instead of
"you have to roll a check to feint/diversion or grab/trip/shove or demoralize"
there wouldn't have been any issue.
But they didn't need to. Those didn't have a Feat to make the Swashbuckler SAD and entirely Acrobatics based and never will (since using Acrobatics for those things doesn't mostly make sense, and they now know it would be a balance problem). Preventing that very specific balance problem is likely one of the reasons for the wording under Battle Dancer being the way it is.
But since for example there are feat like "Versatile Performance" which allows you to use performance to gain panache on a demoralize check, I am sorry, but we are facing some balance issues.
No we aren't.
Performance is still Cha based and not the same skill as Acrobatics. The balance issue with Acrobatic Performer and Battle Dancer is specific to that combo, if allowed, suddenly making Battle Dancer dependent on only a single skill and stat (instead of two skills and two stats like every other Swashbuckler). Needing two stats and two Skills is a balancing mechanic...the fact that you can switch one Skill involved from Intimidate to Performance doesn't matter because it doesn't save resources by allowing you to invest in fewer stats and Skills, you still need to max out two of each.

Blue_frog |

Athetics and Feint are top.
Intimidate becomes top by lvl 9 ( you can use it even on immune targets ).Which leaves Wit and Dancer, which are probably the worst for combat ( even if their improved finisher are imo good ).
And out of combat Bon Mod wins.
Wait, what ? How are Athletics and Feint better ?
Athletics counts towards your MAP so you usually won't be using a finisher on the same turn. It has somewhat more utility but about two-thirds the damage of the other styles, even with the emphasis on STR.
Feint, like Deadmanwalking said, is only melee and against Perception (unless you're a kobold). So yeah, for a kobold, it's awesome. For everyone else, it's subpar. And I mean subpar as in "nigh unplayable".
Intimidate is weak until level 9 like you said and even then, some mobs are immune to fear.
There's no such things with battledancer. Even if you don't fascinate, you still gain panache. Their check is the easiest to perform (at range, against will, no immunity) so it falls to reason that their result is also among the weakest (until you take leading dance and now you have one of the best results with one of the easiest checks).

HumbleGamer |
Performance is still Cha based and not the same skill as Acrobatics. The balance issue with Acrobatic Performer and Battle Dancer is specific to that combo, if allowed, suddenly making Battle Dancer dependent on only a single skill and stat (instead of two skills and two stats like every other Swashbuckler). Needing two stats and two Skills is a balancing mechanic...the fact that you can switch one Skill involved from Intimidate to Performance doesn't matter because it doesn't save resources by allowing you to invest in fewer stats and Skills, you still need to max out two of each.
We all agree on this ( I made up my mind and said this before, and even earlier ).
The only thing I am against is the wording.
If styles are meant to use 2 different skills, then I espect players to use them and not to use different skills to cover up for them ( like versatile performance ).
@Bluefrog: Intimidate is not good as when you have lvl 9, but it's something you can use to help allies too, so it's definitely ok even before lvl 9.

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We all agree on this ( I made up my mind and said this before, and even earlier ).
Okay, cool. Glad we're in agreement there.
The only thing I am against is the wording.
If styles are meant to use 2 different skills, then I espect players to use them and not to use different skills to cover up for them ( like versatile performance ).
But what's the problem with this? Using Versatile Performance to demoralize on a Swashbuckler is more difficult to achieve than just using Intimidate for no real benefit. It's more resource investment with no real benefit. I fail to see the problem.
I mean, I guess there's Virtuosic Performer, but if you're willing to spend 2 Class Feats and a Skill Feat for a +2 bonus on Demoralize, I'm comfortable with that. That's a huge investment for the gain it achieves.
@Bluefrog: Intimidate is not good as when you have lvl 9, but it's something you can use to help allies too, so it's definitely ok even before lvl 9.
Intimidate is very solid. I think all of them are really pretty well balanced, really.
Did anyone see where I asked if Flamboyant Athlete and Powerful Leap effect stack or is it redundant?
They both set the distance you can Leap vertically to 5 feet, so that number wouldn't stack. However, Flamboyant Athlete flatly sets the distance you can leap horizontally, while Powerful Leap adds to it, so they should stack that way (for a 25 foot horizontal leap if you have Speed 30 or more).