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As mentioned elsewhere, I recently bought the Familiar Folio, and got the idea in my head of doing a Patfhinder Society PC based on Boon Sai Hong and Po Po from the old comic book series, Way of the Rat. It's a Chinese themed medieval fantasy series about a thief who accidentally steals a magic item that makes him a master of staff combat, and becomes a hero, with a talking monkey as his mentor.
Again, this is for Pathfinder Society, so RAW only, Paizo sources, PFS legal, etc.
I've decided to go Nature Fang archetype for Druid, with the Monkey domain for the familiar and other benefits. The idea will be a light armored, highly acrobatic two weapon fighting (both ends of the staff, since it's a double weapon) Shillelagh master... with a monkey.
The monkey is non-negotiable, even though there might be better domains for boosting my staff combat abilities, or grabbing an animal companion capable of flanking with me and doing some damage of its own. Actually, the Monkey Domain is pretty good in its own right. The monkey familiar gives +3 acrobatics, the 1st level power can boost my acrobatics or other skills a few times per day, domain spells include Spider Climb and Freedom of Movement, which are excellent. All in all, it's a pretty good domain that suits my theme well.
So here's what I've got so far:
Str: 18 (10 +2 racial)
Dex: 15 (7)
Con: 14 (5)
Int: 7 (-4)
Wis: 14 (5)
Cha: 7 (-4)
Unfortunately, that loses a point in 20 point buy, but there's no way around that. I need high strength for melee, 15 dex for the TWF feats, 14 wisdom for casting (which will still need to be boosted with a headband later), and the highest possible Con for survivability, especially since it determines the familiar's HP, too. That's also why I'm taking Toughness up front.
Traits:
Rice Runner: +1 acrobatics and it becomes a class skill - Goes well with the Monkey domain, and helps me get flanks, which are good for hitting more and harder, since this archetype gets a 1d6 sneak attack at level 4.
Magical Lineage (Shillelagh): I know it sounds silly, but staff fighting is this guy's entire shtick, so applying Quicken to this at level 7 in a 4th level spell slot should be worth it.
Feat/Slayer Talent Profession:
1: Toughness
1: Two Weapon Fighting (Human Bonus)
3: Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
4: Two Weapon Defense (Slayer Talent - Ranger Combat Style Feat)
5: Dodge or Power Attack (depending on which I think I need to boost more at that point - armor class or damage)
6: Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Slayer Talent - Ranger Combat Style Feat)
7: Quicken Spell
8: Dodge or Power Attack (Slayer Talent - Rogue Talent: Combat Trick)
9: ?
10: Two Weapon Rend (Slayer Talent - Ranger Combat Style Feat)
11: ?
12: ?
For those levels when I'm not sure what to take, Double Slice, Improved Initiative, and Combat Reflexes look like possibilities. Also, since I'm not entire sure if Improved TWF will work before my BAB hits +6 at level 8, I might switch those level 6 and 8 slayer talent choices.
My two big concerns are that I won't hit often enough or have high enough armor class. When I do hit, I should do plenty of damage, though. 2d6+1 for Shillelagh, 1d6 sneak attack after level 4, strength bonus, and eventually Power Attack and Two Weapon Rend. I'll be relying on sheer quantity of hits per round more than anything, though.
For the AC, I'm sticking to light armor so I can acrobatics past enemies, and there's no material druids can wear that makes medium armor into light like mithral, so I'm limited to +4 base armor bonus on my armor. I'll have some dex, and that's why I prioritized Dodge and Two Weapon Defense as feats. Mobility might even be a possibility for higher levels.
I've also decided to give Po Po the monkey the Protector archetype, so he'll start with Combat Reflexes and Bodyguard, and be able to boost my AC by +2 against 3 attacks per round while sitting on my shoulder. The only down side there is that it might make him a target, and his own AC and HP will be even worse than mine. Can he wear armor? But that's also why I want 14 constitution, Toughness, and probably most of my favored class bonuses in HP - both human and monkey really need all the HP they can get.
As for hitting in combat, I'm 3/4 BAB with -2 to hit from TWF, which is tough. Studied Attack should help with that, and it's why I'll take Weapon Focus so early. Not being able to upgrade my staff will hurt, too - Shillelagh makes the staff +1, but it only works on non-magical weapons, so I can never get a bigger enhancement bonus than that for my hit rolls. I guess that's the advantage of getting extra attacks per round from TWF and ITWF - I may miss on half of them, but I'll still do decent damage on the other half.
I'm sure I'm missing options that would work well for this guy. Any suggestions?
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Well, since you have the familiar folio, you can use the mauler archetype for your monkey instead of protector. It will make him able to flank with you, and give him a decent STR. Your accuracy should be fine with studied target giving you a solid boost. The biggest problem will be the need to cast shillelagh and spend a move action to study your target at the beginning of each combat.
I'd also try to fit in quarterstaff master and weapon specialization.
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I thought about mauler, but I don't know if it fits the monkey's personality. Remember, I'm basing this on a comic book character, so I've got a specific idea of where I want to go with it. Limiting his int boosts doesn't fit the wise mentor concept.
I didn't know about Quarterstaff Master. Really, all it does is let me take Weapon Specialization without being a fighter, so is it really worth 2 feats to pick up +2 damage per hit? Maybe if I really run out of ideas at higher levels, but there are probably better options. Thanks for pointing it out, though.
I'm really not sure you would overly enjoy PFS with a 7 in INT and a 7 in Charisma. Especially if you want to be a "Hero". This not coming from the how dare you dump lobby but from the perspective that skills are super important in PFS.
I'd recommend Dual Talent Human and go for the following:
STR 18 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 12 WIS 14 CHA 7
Also with medium BAB and TWF you will likely find that PA will not positively effect your DPR, Double Slice will actually be more worth your time.
But just to note...without mauler, the monkey is kinda...not good.
You see, as a nature fang, you have a LARGE number of opportunities to get flank buddies. From animal companions to familiars, you can easily set up flanking for sneak attack, to the point it is a consistant bonus to your damage. You absolutely sure you don't want a nice baboon?
Otherwise, I would advise you to drop the dex and early TWF. Your BAB isn't great, and neither is TWF early on. Just 2 hand the thing. So you can just grab all the TWF feats via slayer talents.
Otherwise, I would advise you to drop the dex and early TWF. Your BAB isn't great, and neither is TWF early on. Just 2 hand the thing. So you can just grab all the TWF feats via slayer talents.
This!
Thinking about it...maybe you can skip the mauler or different animal bits.
Just give the monkey a tiny long spear. Then it can use threaten out to 5'.
Isn't an animal familiar nonproficient in weapons? Yeah, but the point here is that it doesn't have to be good- at all (although, again- an animal companion could be good at hitting). No, this is just so it can threaten and flank with you.
Again, as a class with sneak attack...and MANY ways to get flank buddies... you are ignoring a big part of your damage if you don't have something flanking with you.
So give the monkey a pointy stick, and tell him to distract enemies by poking them in the butts.
So give the monkey a pointy stick, and tell him to distract enemies by poking them in the butts.
Problem with this tactic is that the death of a Monkey gets really expensive.
So give the monkey a pointy stick, and tell him to distract enemies by poking them in the butts.Problem with this tactic is that the death of a Monkey gets really expensive.
Yes, but I am not the one that insists on a familiar monkey, rather than an animal companion like a baboon, or ape.
They are melee specific pets for a reason- they are cheaply replacable, given time.
I am just looking at ways for him to leverage an advantage that few others have- sneak attack and class based flank buddies.
I will admit- he could summon things with spontaneous SNA... but that takes up 1 round to cast.
I am just looking at ways for him to leverage an advantage that few others have- sneak attack and class based flank buddies.
The base Nature Fang Druid only gets one lonely Sneak Attack die which you could just as well ignore.
I am just looking at ways for him to leverage an advantage that few others have- sneak attack and class based flank buddies.The base Nature Fang Druid only gets one lonely Sneak Attack die which you could just as well ignore.
...
......oh.
I was under the impression it advanced. At all. Since that is a thing sneak attack usualyl does.
Still...you have consistant flank buddies that you can have at almost all times. So it is rather different to the rogue's sneak attack- this persists.
Even ignoring the sneak attack, giving it 3 int lets you get teamwork weaks, such as outflank, which further boosts your accuracy. Something 3/4 BAB TWF users love.
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I'm just not that worried about there being at least one other front liner at any PFS table. That's why I'm focusing on acrobatics to get behind the enemies and flank with the other PCs. With the +3 from the monkey and trait to make it a class skill, I'm easily getting +10 acrobatics at level 1, even before the bonus from the 1st level Monkey domain power, which is a free action to activate.
I considered not doing 15 dex, and just using the ranger style to get the TWF feats without prereqs, but I didn't like having to wait until level 4 to get TWF. I know my chance to hit won't be great, but that's the advantage of having two shots.
People here are saying that TWF is no good at low levels, so I just ran some math. At level 1, with 18 strength and Shillelagh, I have a +5 to hit on one shot or +3 on two with TWF. As an example, against AC 16, TWF gives a 64% chance to hit at least once on AC 16 as opposed to 50% with just one shot, plus there's a 16% chance of hitting with both when using TWF. Studied Target just helps either way.
The numbers hold up for any AC between 10 and 20. TWF is always a better chance to hit at least once, though the damage is obviously slightly higher when two handing. But with Shillelagh, I'm doing 2d6+3 even with my offhand attack, 2d6+5 with my primary, which is plenty at level 1. Add in Double Slice, Power Attack, and Sneak Attack at higher levels, and the +4 or +2 I'm losing from my strength bonus isn't that big a deal. And I can always switch back to two handing for a single attack if I feel I need more damage on a single hit, for instance to overcome DR.
I will point out that a Sage monkey familiar both nicely offsets the 7 INT and is a perfect fit for the character concept.
1d6 sneak attack is not significant, but there is that new feat that adds a sneak attack die which may be worth it (assuming it's legal). At which point finding a way to consistently sneak attack is more needed.
Your math isn't considering that your off hand attack deals 2 less damage than your normal attacks. Also if you were not TWF you'd likely be two handing with power attack for 2d6+10 on a hit versus 2d6+5 or 2d6+3.
Also consider that setting up a flank and activating Studied target are both move actions most of the time so the times where you can actually take 2 attacks might come up less often than you think.
Your math isn't considering that your off hand attack deals 2 less damage than your normal attacks. Also if you were not TWF you'd likely be two handing with power attack for 2d6+10 on a hit versus 2d6+5 or 2d6+3.
Also consider that setting up a flank and activating Studied target are both move actions most of the time so the times where you can actually take 2 attacks might come up less often than you think.
With the near abscence of sneak attack, TWF isn't worth too much until after level 5 at least, where studied target does +2 attack/damage on each hit. It is fully worth it after you can swift action study at level 9.
Well, having one die of sneak attack allows you to active Studied target as an immediate action when you sneak attack them, and it allows you to further increase it with the +1d6 sneak attack feat in heroes of the streets. It's not a lot, but it is worth having.
Ah, is that why they have the sorry excuse for sneak attack?
Well then....yes, you want to give the monkey a pointy stick.