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Going to be incredibly petty for a moment: Modern video games frustrate me more and more with each release. They feel so complicated, with so many moving parts to keep track of that in order to get the good endings you practically have to plan your character build and the order you do tasks in in advance, and game guides just aren't written the way they used to: no company publishes physical books like Prima, GameFAQs is all but dead, and every wiki that gets made is slapdash and incomplete! And watching YouTube videos of other people playing the game is no help, because hopping back and forth between playing the game and trying to find a specific 30 second part of a 2 hour Let's Play is an unbelievable hassle, espe ially since so many of these games have a lot of text that said Let's Plays don't give you the time to read! It makes me afraid to even START games like Pathfinder: Kingmaker. That game's become my Great White Whale recently, and I feel like I'm playing the much more simplistic, repetitive and endingless Warframe to avoid it...
First of all, I hear you. There's a lot of stuff where I've been like "nope, this is just too much to track." I think part of the problem is an increasing gap between uber-Hardcore gamers who do NOTHING but play all day--so they've lots of time to sublimate all the rules and track them--and anyone who plays less, even if they are very games-informed (not necessarily a "casual" player). The uber players demand increasing complexity and difficulty to challenge themselves, and the publishers comply because they disproportionately spend the most money on these games--they're the ones who are willing to pay fees to play, who preorder everything and at the monstrous cost of the special editions, and thus earn the game companies the most capital. The game companies choose to target this audience rather than a majority audience who might have different wants/needs but who will invest less and are less willing to engage with huge moneymaking "options" like microtransactions and subscription fees.
As for Pathfinder: Kingmaker specifically: while I think it could use much better tutorials, but the game in particular is heavily based on Pathfinder first edition and much of the game's complexity relates to PF1e's own mechanics. If you are very familiar with Pathfinder 1E, Kingmaker should not be too overwhelming. The kingdom building system, similar to the one in the pen and paper campaign, is fairly simple. Kingmaker's flaws relate less to its complexity and more to some of the way it has designed some of its "choices"--it seems to reward roleplaying certain alignments over others and other aspects of play aren't transparent--like there's some quests where it's unclear where you're supposed to go/what to do next. But while those are design problems, they're not complexity problems. It's still a decent game and I recommend it if you like Pathfinder. (If you don't, I wouldn't bother.)
What kind of games are you looking for?
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It's less what I'm "looking for" and more "getting through the backlog I already HAVE," a list that includes...
Baldur's Gate series (Enhanced Editions)
Crusader Kings 2
Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen
Legends of Eisenwald
Icewind Dale series
Mount & Blade: Warband (and the original Mount & Blade, With Fire and Sword and Viking Invasion, I'm not even TOUCHING Bannerlord right now)
Neverwinter Nights series (Enhanced Edition on Steam, NWN 2 on GOG)
Pillars of Eternity series
Planescape Torment: Enhanced Edition
Stellaris
Titan Quest: Anniversary Edition
Torment: Tides of Numenera
Total War series
Tyranny
Potentially Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, but I'm not sure of that anymore given me discovering the LOADS of problematic stuff in WoD and the people who wrote it
The Witcher series
The Elder Scrolls series
The Mass Effect series (I've played 1 multiple times and 2 once, but didn't complete the trilogy before getting a new computer and starting over, and have yet to play 3 or Andromeda)
The Dragon Age series (I've played both Origins and 2 multiple times, but was waiting for Inqusition to be fully released so I could see what impacts my decisions would have in it, but now want to wait for whatever sequel comes next so I can make the best decisions in Inquisition)
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
The Outer Worlds (when it comes out on Steam)
The Waylanders (I contributed to its Kickstarter campaign)
and of course, Pathfinder: Kingmaker and the upcoming Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous (which I also contributed to its Kickstarter)
It's mostly an issue with games like PoE and Pathfinder, to be fair. I know Pathfinder as a game well enough, but that's not the ONLY thing you have to manage in Kingmaker. There's the kingdom-building system, quest timers, mutually exclusive story branches based on alignment, mutually exclusive story branches determined by previous decisions you've made, options you can miss or quests you can fail because a stat or skill isn't high enough, or because you're missing a certain item, or didn't bring the right party member, or brought the WRONG party member, and there's no place I can easily learn how all these interconnected things flow like I could when I played Fallout: New Vegas or Morrowind, where I had physical books with all the information I needed to map out how I was going to do things, or played Neverwinter Nights 2 for the first time, when I could look up everything I needed on GameBanshee, or when I played Jade Empire where someone wrote out an entire walkthrough of the game on GameFAQs right down to the dialogue choices, that I printed out and still have in a folder somewhere.
If I HAD the information to plot my course through Pathfinder: Kingmaker, this would be easy, but the only information I can find seems to be on incomplete wikis, Let's Play videos, and forums where there's so little actual activity that it feels like I'm shouting my questions to the void. And a big part of it is the fact that I contributed to Pathfinder: Kingmaker's Kickstarter too. My name's listed in the credits as a backer, so it feels wrong to just have it sitting there in my Steam Library with only a single achievement and only 11 hours played, most of which were me simply fiddling around with the Character Creation screen repeatedly and actually playing through the initial tutorial once.
For what it's worth, I'm playing through Kingmaker right now for the first time (though if I weren't so far in, I'd be tempted to start over to play in turn based mode). It sounds to me like you've almost looked into it too much. I am finding the best thing to do is play the way I want to and accept the story as mine. I don't think there's one best play through, and is, to an extent, best not planned out too much. The game is design to be the story you want to tell, not the one you think needs to be told. To address some specific concerns. I would almost think you've read too much ahead about the game and your worries about what the game might be like has ruined what it's actually like. Overall, most of the problems the game has are with regard to bad game design (and why I do not plan to get Wrath of the Righteous) and not complexity per se. At the same time it's not THAT bad and
There's the kingdom-building system
This works basically as it does in the P&P version and is not too complicated on its own. It's hard to screw up town building. The rest of it boils down to save your BP, spend most of your gold on BP, and if you ever see something appear as a "problem" make sure you can assign an advisor to it ASAP. Try to research curses when you can, but only once you get things established. Make sure any impending problems are dealt with before you take a quest that will make time pass (raising a rank with an advisor, claiming a region, or upgrading a region; all of these are obvious that they will take your time in this way). In general, if you have no quests you can act on except one called the "Tenebrous Depths," now is a good time to do the time consuming kingdom building stuff.
The ONLY difficult part is that you are limited as who you can choose as an advisor, and the decisions the design team made on who can advise on what are limiting and stupid. And this is the only place where I (only somewhat and temporarily) got screwed over, but after a couple bumpy spots I'm fine:
The game is very bad at letting you know who might become an advisor or who won't be, and what kind of advisor where they can serve. At the beginning of the game you can choose one person to come with you -- you can tell from the way they talk they are a good, neutral, or evil option. I picked the good one as I was good aligned. Turns out, he is an option for general. Later in the game several things happen at once: one party member temporarily leaves, and he is my ONLY available Councilor, because it's the NEutral choice at the beginning who is one of the Councilor options, and the third Councilor is a b%%#!+% evil priestess of lamashtu who I kicked out of my kingdom because she's a b&*$&$@ evil priestess of Lamashtu. This isn't complexity, it's just s~*%ty choices. So I have NO Councilor. Secondly, a battle event happens were TWO of my possible general choices, including the Good general guy I picked at the beginning of the game, leave. And the only possible option for General is also my ONLY possible option for Warden (and I hate him and don't want to assign him either), because my other Warden choices were another b~*!$@* evil dude I didn't realize was a possible advisor recruit, and a party member who was made I wanted to make peace with some enemies and I couldn't find some dude he wanted to kill first (I didn't care about the party member because his build was basically my PC's build and I didn't need him for my party). What's really stupid is at the same time you lose these THREE advisors, I gained a new advisor. You'd THINK he'd be a choice for Councilor, Warden, or General since you just lost a few of these, but no, he's a f$%$ing treasurer, options for whom I have an abundance of.
So you'd think, f&$#, if only I had looked ahead planned this out I wouldn't be without a counselor and either a warden or a general. But turns out, that only lasted for a few scenes, and then I got everybody back and I have all the advisors I need. And I DON'T want to be allied with the evil characters I didn't recruit. I feel like I am playing the right way for my character. And all is working out fine.
quest timers
The game is very obvious about quest timers, and most of them are lengthy timers. You get plenty of warning. There is ONE case where I realized there was a quest I needed to address and hadn't realized there was a time limit, and the game actually just gave me warning, "you better talk to so and so soon." The only way to suffer from this is to completely ignore the messages you get in the game.
mutually exclusive story branches based on alignment, mutually exclusive story branches determined by previous decisions you've made,
This is a feature that is supposed to increase replayability and story reactivity. It may not be the right game for you to play if you consider that problematic.
options you can miss or quests you can fail because a stat or skill isn't high enough
I am pretty sure I have never failed an entire quest because of a failed skill check. Just had to take a different way around. The one thing I would suggest is making sure either your PC or an ally you plan to always have with you has a high Persuasion, and another PC or yourself has a high Athletics. There's a lot of these checks.
or because you're missing a certain item,
Not something I've encountered either yet.
or didn't bring the right party member, or brought the WRONG party member,
The game is also very, very, very clear when a quest requires a particular party member. First, the party members will ask to come along. Second, some of the quest areas will actually say, "You can't enter this place without X." It will also be obvious from context, if not from dialogue, when a certain combination of characters is a bad idea, although I have yet to encounter a situation where I outright was told I brought the wrong person or my ally choice created a bad situation.
If you're the kind of player who just has to have that one perfect playthrough the first time around... yeah, this game isn't for you. I don't think that's a flaw in the game. Or in you. It just means games with different outcomes for different playstyles or choices don't appeal to you. that's okay.
There are design problems with this game galore and issues with the game where things aren't transparent to the player, but a walkthrough won't fix these things. Bad design is just bad design.
As far as mechanical complexity goes, again, PF1e is all you need to know. For story complexity... well, that's a matter of taste and style.
PS of the games you listed:
Titan Quest is purely hack and slash (but super fun--if you like Diablo like games I highly recommend it). Pretty thorough walkthroughs out there for it as well, and build guides. Gorgeous game with lots of fun with mythology.
Elder Scrolls -- lots of ways to solve quests but it tends to be pretty black and white with no punishing consequences for the most part. Bethesda is NOT known for plot complexity or impactful choices, but beautiful worlds and fun world design.
Pillars of Eternity is best played NOT planned out, IMO. There ARE branching choices with impact, but personally I find it rewards you playing the way you want to for the most part. Just understand Obsidian is always going to have some good and bad consequences either way--there's never the one good perfectly consequence free path. However, the wikis are pretty thorough if you want to spoil yourself about the consequences of various choices.
Icewind Dale, my vague memories are it's pretty hack n slashy.
NWN -- lots of choices but it tends to be good/evil. NWN2 is a little more complex. Just understand sometimes is something bad happens it may just be scripted that way, not necessarily because you "did it wrong."
Hi AZ! /waves
I think it may be worthwhile to approach games in a different way.
I have a friend IRL that plays the way you do, by meticulously planning to ensure the desired result is achieved. I think this style of play is definitely fun for her, but it can be overwhelming for games with a lot of moving parts. And I think its particularly difficult in games that aren't designed to be played that way (games that have mutually exclusive paths and options with no "good" or "better" choice).
Like for example, a play through of Disco Elysium WILL be completely and utterly ruined if you try to optimize it. The entire point of the game is to play with impulses and unintended consequences and to get you to "roleplay" your decisions with spur of the moment value judgements and gut decisions.
When I started the Kingmaker videogame myself, I was pretty tempted to look some things up ahead of time. But ultimately I ended up denying that desire for comfortable surety and have been playing blind. It's been a blast. Sure, sometimes I wonder what would have happened had I picked different options, but in a way, not knowing adds to the weight and impact of the options I did pick. Ultimately, this is the way the game is meant to be played - that you choose options that seem right to you, and you enjoy the consequences, even if those consequences may be things you didn't expect or particularly want.
I recommend you give playing blind a try. Let go of the fear of missing out. Remember Bob Ross: "We don't make mistakes, just happy little accidents."
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OH GOD, DISCO ELYSIUM! People keep raving about how good a game it is, and I DO believe them, but I'm too afraid to purchase it because it looks like EXACTLY the kind of game that would drive me crazy.
I have actually played through Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 multiple times(the reason they're on my list is because I got a new computer and because new things came out for them years after I first got through them, and they kind of had a strong influence on how I play games: it isn't as much a matter of doing a perfect playthrough on the first try. In fact experience has taught me that's pretty much impossible. So I do a LOT of save scumming the first time I play something, but I tend to avoid obviously evil responses in conversations because I don't like hurting NPC feelings. What is the bug thing for me are quests: it's VERY important to me that I tick every box on that checklist, and get the happiest endings on those text-cards at the end, because I don't wanna end up in a situation where someone got a bad ending because I didn't complete their sidequest before the Act changed and their area became inaccessible.
That's tricky enough in NWN 2, where you have to keep your influence high with a party of conflicting alignments (LOOKING AT YOU, BISHOP, YA CE SH!T) and ones where parties can be so limited (I went so far as to download a mod for Mask of the Betrayer that allowed me to bring 4 companions instead of the regular cap of 3, so I could do all their sidequests and have them all get their endings, otherwise one would eventually be left out).
There was also Crossroad Keep to manage, where you had to be careful about when you entered and completed quests to make sure you didn't accidentally advance time without resolving a situation or assigning troops or sergeants. To say nothing of the fact that resolving those situations optimally requires having good ranks in skills that otherwise don't see any use in the campaign like Appraise, requiring you to either play a class that got access to a lot of skill ranks like a rogue, bard or wizard, or use cheat codes to boost your INT score to afford them and not shortchange the core of your build.
I did all this and got through the games, and felt pretty darn proud of myself. I was attracted to Kingmaker's Kickstarter not just because of my love of Golarion as a world, but because it reminded me so much of NWN 2. But getting through NWN 2 would have been impossible if there hadn't been dozens of GameFaqs documents and build repositories helping me chart my course, and people just don't seem to WRITE those anymore, and I don't want to cheat anymore since that disables Steam achievements. I've been told when I describe my issues on other forums that it sounds like I play more out of a compulsion than a desire to have fun, and I sometimes worry that they're right...
Yeah, now that it's on consoles you'll find information more readily available.
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I just hope there's some more information as to what alignments are required for what quests, and the order one should do the quests in to get the best endings. From giving TV Tropes a cursory glance, I worry that no matter what kind of character I play, I'm going to end up screwing some NPC or companion over and getting their worst ending because I can't be all alignments at once, and since doing quests in different orders results in different people getting killed, but someone getting killed is guaranteed, that frustrates me considerably.
Having different quests get better results with different alignments isn't going to get me to play a game this long multiple times to see the different results each time. It's going to get me to try and game the alignment system so I change my alignment to suit the quest I'm trying to complete, meaning my character has no consistent characterization!
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Archpaladin, the game is designed for multiple replays. You're not going to be able to do all things in one play through. That is its design as intended. If that's going to drive you crazy, then don't play the game. It wasn't meant for someone like you.
This said, I think I know the bit you are talking about, with losing characters. This honestly is not a big deal. But I think I can alleviate your concerns.
Short version: you want to play a Lawful Good character. Given your username and the way you appear to think about doing things, I kind of expect you would anyway.
Long version: there is one major choice where you are asked to either go save your capital or go to where the big bad is big badding. A non-party member NPC ally will insist that you go to the Capital first and that he will go to the Big Bad location. You will not be able to dissuade him/get him to change his plan unless you are of Lawful alignment. If you are lawful and can select this, there is a way to save him AND your other non-party member NPC who will be in danger; otherwise one or the other dies. Neither are party members; one is an option for a Warden advisor and the other is an option for a Divine advisor. I honestly can't remember which one you have to do first--I think it's go to big bad place, leave, then go to capital, or lawful-force-dude-to-go-to-capital and then both are saved--but I suspect you'll check to be sure which. Otherwise, you will lose one or the other dude, but that are NOT party members, so just make your choice based on whether you want to save the Divine dude or the Warden dude.
I lost a party member (Ekundayo) because I couldn't find a dude he wanted to kill and then when I was fighting the troll king, I chose a Chaotic option to ally with the trolls rather than a Lawful option to slaughter them because they were unlawful land grabbers in my barony or some nonsense. I didn't care because I didn't need Ekundayo. However, if this bothers you, just make sure you don't ally with the trolls (take the Lawful option to kill them all) and make sure you kill the dude he wants to kill.
I believe you may also need to be Good to get a best result for Tristian in an obvious moment for convincing Tristian to do the right thing.
To my knowledge--I have not yet finished the game, but am pretty far in--there is no other situation where you can't get a good ending for a party member as long as you do your best to help them.
Please note that while there are rare dialogue choices where you have to have a certain alignment to get the option, most alignment-based dialogues are available regardless of your actual alignment. So if you know a Chaotic option might convince Amiri better than a Lawful one, you can pick that option without major consequence. Your alignment will tick ever so slightly toward Chaotic, but if you are Neutral or Lawful, it will take a massive, consistent effort to actually shift your alignment in this way. I'm playing a Chaotic Good character and have picked a lot of Lawful and/or Neutral options when I thought they made more sense, and I think even once an Evil option, and my alignment is still Chaotic Good.
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It is Kobolds and Mites at Old Sycamore. It is not necessarily a better outcome to ally with both of them--why do you think letting two fundamentally evil societies run amok in your kingdom is the best outcome?
Anyway, I think if you either side with the Kobolds (a Lawful dialogue option) or broker peace (a neutral option--I believe you have to be of neutral alignment) you get the option of building Kobold quarters in your kingdom. (It's annoying that the neutral choice is alignment restricted, especially since the designers seem to think Lawful=kills all monsters for some weird reason, but it's still basically okay to go any route you want on that quest.) I am not aware of any other impact on the game.
Please take several deep breaths and absorb this: IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO EVERYTHING IN ONE PLAYTHROUGH. THERE IS NO ONE TRUE WAY. THERE IS NO "CORRECT" PLAYTHROUGH. It is designed for people to roleplay and get reactions based on how they roleplayed that suit their style. This game is designed for people who enjoy seeing the consequences of their actions, both good and bad. It is designed for REplay so that people can get a different story every time they play. This isn't like Suikoden where you get all 108 people and get the good ending.
I apologize for any negative tone, but I'm sort of concerned for/worried about you while at the same time a little aggravated by your inability to listen/accept facts, so to speak. You posted first 10 days ago. You're still agonizing over this. You were agonizing over this apparently prior such that you hadn't installed the game to even see what it's like, even though you backed a kickstarter. This level of compulsiveness seems to be ruining your ability to have any fun. I strongly suggest either finding a different kind of game that makes you much less anxious, or working with yourself so you can be more willing to go with the flow in games like this.
I am going to stop offering advice on this now because I think I will only add to your anxiety level over this game. Good luck... and please, whatever you do... have fun.