Weapon Damage in 2e. Pathfinder

[Nerfalus]

So I am wondering if someone knows the answer to this.

I have noticed in the Monster Manual, dungeon masters guide and other books, that many npc's and monsters will have a large plus to their damage that is not explained by their strength. For instance take a level 9 standard Roc (pg 281 bestiary). It has a +6 str score (so +6 damage) but its claws do 2d8+12 slashing. Where does the other +4 come from?

One other example from the Monster Hunter NPC on 227 of gamemaster guide. It's a level 6 creature has +4 str and has a magic greataxe that does 1d12+8? Even if it gets +2 damage from weapon spz (which it can't get till level 7 anyways) that would not explain the other +2 damage. Am I missing something?

My PC's have been asking me about this, and wondering if I am shorting them on the damage they do? Maybe this is in another thread but can anyone help me with this?

[Elorebaen]

Basically the answer is that it depends. The in-depth answer can be found in the GMG pgs. 56-73

[Kelseus]

The problem is that you are comparing apples and oranges.

NPCs are Creatures, i.e. monsters. They follow monster creation rules.

PCs are player game pieces. They follow the PCs rules.

These are completely separate rules. Monsters deal damage according to their level, not because of what the damage "comes from."

Look at the Demonologist from the GMG. He has a strength of +3, but does 1d8+9 damage with his staff strike, for an average of 13.5. There is no way for a level 7 wizard to get +9 (!) to their phisical strikes.
Compare this to the Dark Naga who is a spell casting level 7 creature with a Str of +2. They do 2d8+5 with their fangs Strike, for an average of 14.

If you go to the GMG creature building rules, a spellcaster should have low Strike damage. On the strike damage table, you go down to level 7 row and Low collumn and it has......

13 damage! Almost exactly what is listed for both monsters.

Look at their to-hit. A wizard with a +3 str would have a +13 to hit. (+3 str, +7 lvl, +2 trained, +1 rune). But the Demonologist has a +17 to hit. That is more akin to a fighter's +18! (+4 str, +6 master, +7 level, +1 rune). The Naga has a +19!!!! even better than the fighter.

The reason is not that the Creatures are cheating or have some hidden power you can't see, it's that they have a different purpose. A creature might get 2 or 3 turns total, and are likely only to get one or two Strikes in each turn. So to make them effective in battle and not so weak as to never risk the PCs going unconscious, the numbers are a calculated differently. Whereas a PC might have 10-15 encounters in a level, making 3 to 6 Strikes in each, for 30 to 80 Strikes over the course of the level. So the chances of a high dice roll help to negate the lower to hit numbers. The more you hit the higher your damage is.

TLDR; they have different numbers because they use different rules because they are different things.

[Nerfalus]

Thanks this is great guys, I appreciate the quick responses and that makes sense. I figured it was something like that, but as all of us know when your PC's get an idea in their head, they will argue it all day long. I hate just giving the answer "well I'm the DM and its just that way" so this is great.

Thanks again!

[Michael Sayre]

Those bonuses can also often be compared to the NPC/monster having something like Weapon Specialization, which wouldn't be listed in the stat block because we typically don't waste page space on detailing unchanging static bonuses (thus allowing us to fit more meaningful content per page in our monster write ups).