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Even though the Third Pathfinder Preview concerning Seoni doesn’t come out until next week, I’ve decided to start the complaining now.
First, the artwork. Even though I haven’t seen it yet, I am very disappointed with this unseen artwork. It fails to meet my unrealistic expectations of being hyper-photorealistic, yet still in the style of classic masters.
Secondly, let’s discuss Seoni’s Fortitude saving throw. Even though I don’t know what the number is, I’m going to assume it’s very low for a 14th level character, if not negative. This leaves her completely vulnerable to poison, say from the bite of a garden snake, or disease, say from stepping on a rusty rake. This is obviously a significant fault with the sorcerer class as whole, as a sorcerer should have no weaknesses, and be able to do everything perfectly with no help from the rest of the adventuring party.
I’m sure I’ll think of other imaginary complaints before the preview comes out. Please add your own.
It seems pretty obvious that they will have calculated her AC wrong. Also, why won't she have a 30 Charisma and 3 in all her other stats? She will clearly not have been totally min-maxed, and I don't know who in their right mind would design a character that isn't.
Her Charisma is clearly not high enough to reflect her appearance!!! ;-)
And why did she take Jump as a first level spell? That spell is made of FAIL. DO NOT WANT
<watches the footage of Seoni jumping>
Oh, now I get it. Never mind.
Wait, they're using that corporate stooge instead of someone worthy like Kyra or Merisiel? How dare Seoni take the spotlight!
Secondly, let’s discuss Seoni’s Fortitude saving throw. Even though I don’t know what the number is, I’m going to assume it’s very low for a 14th level character, if not negative. This leaves her completely vulnerable to poison, say from the bite of a garden snake, or disease, say from stepping on a rusty rake.
Rusty rakes are CR 15. A 14th level PC should have to stand up and take note.
Wait, they're using that corporate stooge instead of someone worthy like Kyra or Merisiel? How dare Seoni take the spotlight!
Bah!
The goddess Seoni is to be complained about!
The sorcerer was always weak, now because of the changes it is even weaker! Bloodlines should be replaced with all good saves and full base attack bonus, and +8 unnatural AC with an extra +1 per 2 levels that makes all of the sorcerers spell even more powerful, so that a sorcerer of any level can fight every thing of any level and not have to think, plan, be creative, try different approaches....
ROFLCOPTER!
Peace!
The sorcerer was always weak, now because of the changes it is even weaker! Bloodlines should be replaced with all good saves and full base attack bonus, and +8 unnatural AC with an extra +1 per 2 levels that makes all of the sorcerers spell even more powerful, so that a sorcerer of any level can fight every thing of any level and not have to think, plan, be creative, try different approaches....
I don't know. I think that this would still leave them behind the Universalist wizard in terms of raw power.
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How to bash the third preview... well, we could go with a few scenarios:
THE DEN BASH
The third iconic is made of paizil fael. It's exception-based design smells of suck and buhlmanism. She lasts two and a half rounds against my Druid/Expert/Malconvoker/Shadowspeaker of Shorkorsto/Shark with Friggin' Laser Beams. Seriously, if Paizo thinks they will succeed with a book which COMPLETETLY IGNORES my 89 page PDF "Book of Not Fael", well, it means Paizo is made of fael. Their only redeeming feature is that casting time of Silence is now 1 round, and that barely makes them better than Mearls School of Abject Design Fael.
THE 4E BASH
The third iconic shows everything that is wrong with previous editions. First of all, she doesn't have any cool flavour text like, "I am power and power is me". Second, it has far too much text, I got bored after the movement speed. Thirdly, her picture shows those things that adults call "boobs", and I'm not sure if such art policy extends our core competency in the target demographic. Lastly, no references to Shadowfey or Darkwild ! Really, Seoni is all about why last 30 years of D&D history are negligible and should be replaced by a swift shift of 3 squares using my daily power.
THE oWOD BASH
God kill me .. oh wait, I killed God so somebody else kill me, another preview of that dumb wargame for teen rednecks. So many numbers...my head hurts. It's all about rolling the stupid dice, where's her angst-ridden backstory ? Where is the bit where she gets raped by her vampire mother ? Or about how she little and insignificant she is next to an ancient werewolf or a primal ghost who both live on the same street ? And finally, where's the goddamn conspiracy story featuring cyborg assassin ninja demon hunter corporation from hell ? Beh ... cry me a river, I'm off to slash my wrists.
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The third iconic shows everything that is wrong with previous editions. First of all, she doesn't have any cool flavour text like, "I am power and power is me".
THIS. TOTALLY. EPIC WIN!
OMG, how has Jason missed the potential for such *K3WL* flavour texts?!? I suggest the following: "You seem suprised to see my b00bz!" for Seoni.
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First, let me begin by saying Seoni is the epitome of everything that is right with the tradition and 30+ year history of our game. As the steward of our game, Erik is leading us to a new era where the very best of scantily-clad women, and attractive fantasy features continue to make us "want" the products, as it has since the founders created the game. One can draw a straight line from the legacy of of the game's co-creators and the artwork they selected, to this stunning image of Seoni. From Sonja to Seoni, our history is secure. Well done. Huzzah!
3.5 and Awesome Thighs
OMG, how has Jason missed the potential for such *K3WL* flavour texts?!? I suggest the following: "You seem suprised to see my b00bz!" for Seoni.
For some reason, I have this mental image of a Seoni with a James Bond villain voice saying "So Mr. Bond, you seem surprised to see my b00bz!"
And why did she take Jump as a first level spell? That spell is made of FAIL. DO NOT WANT
<watches the footage of Seoni jumping>
Oh, now I get it. Never mind.
Seoni jumps? I thought she just bounced.
Seoni, Seoni, Seoni. It's like they've shoved Ezren into a closet or something.
It's his own fault for not coming out of that closet. This is the Age of Lost Omens, not the Age of Darkness, for Elysium's sake!
I hate how she can't hold her own against the fighter.
Au contrere! Far too hard for him to grapple her!
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Secondly, let’s discuss Seoni’s Fortitude saving throw. Even though I don’t know what the number is, I’m going to assume it’s very low for a 14th level character, if not negative. This leaves her completely vulnerable to poison, say from the bite of a garden snake, or disease, say from stepping on a rusty rake.Rusty rakes are CR 15. A 14th level PC should have to stand up and take note.
A good point about the CR; however, if you have been keeping up with internet fallacies, you would already know that a 14th level character can always easily defeat a CR 14 challenge on their own, regardless of the nature of the challenge. By this illogic, a CR 15 should be only cause a 14th level character to expend some of their resources.
Which is simply a continuation of my previous irrational complaint concerning Fortitude saves. Every class should be able to handle every situation with ridiculous ease.
No man is an island, but who cares if your first level fighter can summon one?
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I hate how she can't hold her own against the fighter.Au contrere! Far too hard for him to grapple her!
Which brings me to yet another complaint about Seoni's unseen preview - despite being an arcane spellcaster and not a front line warrior, her CMB is far too low to work effectively against her CMD.
If a clone of Seoni attempted to grapple Seoni, she would would only have a .00001% chance of success, when she really should have a 99.9999% chance of success (and this low percentage is debatable).
Seriously - imagine a scenario where Seoni and her clone are trapped in an anti-magic field (which they should be immune to, being spellcasters!). Suddenly Seoni's Clone makes a grapple check against Seoni...
[[Spends several minutes imagining Seoni and her clone engaged in a grapple.]]
Wait, what were we talking about again?
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Seriously - imagine a scenario where Seoni and her clone are trapped in an anti-magic field (which they should be immune to, being spellcasters!). Suddenly Seoni's Clone makes a grapple check against Seoni...
[[Spends several minutes imagining Seoni and her clone engaged in a grapple.]]
Wait, what were we talking about again?
How broken the grease spell would be, in that scenario, with both of the Seoni's all slicked up and sliding around, oozing out of their tiny outfits...
Nerf grease!
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Thirdly, her picture shows those things that adults call "boobs", and I'm not sure if such art policy extends our core competency in the target demographic.
Those aren't boobs. That's just where she keeps her badger familiar and a few flasks of alchemical fire and some tanglefoot bags, in her 'vest of bodacious holding.'
'Cause it's all about the optimization.
I wrote a post that I thought was funny, but I deleted it just to be safe. 20 minutes later I wasn't sure if the sarcasm didn't cut a little too sharply. So I deleted it just as a precaution.
I guess my biggest complaint about the Seoni artwork, without ever having seen it, is that I'm gong to have to suffer a bunch of males complaining how it objectifies women.
If people have a problem with it, that's their right. Just some the complaints I've read have been a bit too much.
I mean it's great to want to be considerate to everybody, but I grow weary of posts and blog entries that read: "I am a man, but her breasts hurt my inner woman! Oh the inhumanity! Excuse me while I call everybody filthy names in the privacy of my off-site blog. Now maybe the girl at my local coffee shop will like me now."
I'm not even sure if I'm being sarcastic.
To Lisa, Vic, and Erik: I want to reassure you. Seoni has never ruined my Christmas/Winter Holiday. My attitude towards candy canes has not been diminished, only improved.
I don't think she'll ruin my final version of the rules either.
EDIT: Hmmmm.. re-reading it, I have to say to myself, "And that's the toned down version?" I guess I'm that weary of the breast rage.
I think you have to take 3 levels in the Red Sonja PRC....breast rage.What level does a barbarian have to be to select that rage power?
I thought you had to take breasts as your totem with a totem feat. Much less disturbing than a phallic totem anywho... *shudder*
I haven't seen this preview yet, but I suspect that the following post will be validated once I have:
How is this preview supposed to convince me to play Pathfinder? Having seen Seoni's grossly non-optimized stats, I have to say that she is practically the same as a standard 3.5 sorcerer.
All you've added are a new feat progression, an improved skill system than benefits sorcerers, improved mechanics to replace Concentration, sorcerer bonus feats, bonus spells known, bloodline powers, at-will cantrips, a wider range of easier-to-use polymorph spells, rebalanced save-or-die spells to insure that spellcasters don't just breeze through challenges set by the GM in a single round, and some obligatory CMB and CMD numbers. Other than that, I can do everything you've done with Seoni using the 3.5 rules.
You're supposed to be convincing me that the game which allows me to continue using my 3.5 library makes my entire 3.5 library obsolete. Your preview hasn't done that. In fact, it makes me want to play 3.5 instead of Pathfinder... Just as soon as I find a core rulebook to replace the 3.5 PHB that I sold last year. Preferably a rulebook that's still in print. One whose rules closely resemble those in the 3.5 PHB. Anyone know where I can find something like that?
EPIC LOL
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I haven't seen this preview yet, but I suspect that the following post will be validated once I have:
How is this preview supposed to convince me to play Pathfinder? Having seen Seoni's grossly non-optimized stats, I have to say that she is practically the same as a standard 3.5 sorcerer.
All you've added are a new feat progression, an improved skill system than benefits sorcerers, improved mechanics to replace Concentration, sorcerer bonus feats, bonus spells known, bloodline powers, at-will cantrips, a wider range of easier-to-use polymorph spells, rebalanced save-or-die spells to insure that spellcasters don't just breeze through challenges set by the GM in a single round, and some obligatory CMB and CMD numbers. Other than that, I can do everything you've done with Seoni using the 3.5 rules.
You're supposed to be convincing me that the game which allows me to continue using my 3.5 library makes my entire 3.5 library obsolete. Your preview hasn't done that. In fact, it makes me want to play 3.5 instead of Pathfinder... Just as soon as I find a core rulebook to replace the 3.5 PHB that I sold last year. Preferably a rulebook that's still in print. One whose rules closely resemble those in the 3.5 PHB. Anyone know where I can find something like that?
A very fine, astute, bit of sarcasm, sir. Well done.
If a clone of Seoni attempted to grapple Seoni, she would would only have a .00001% chance of success, when she really should have a 99.9999% chance of success (and this low percentage is debatable).
It should be 101% at least. Who doesn't want to be grappled by Seoni? Not even herself can resist herself.
I thought you had to take breasts as your totem with a totem feat.
That's a phallusy.
That's a phallusy.
I thought you had to take breasts as your totem with a totem feat.
Someone needs to perform a phallusectomy on these arguments. I'll get the rusty scissors.
How to bash the third preview... well, we could go with a few scenarios: [snipped]
Thank you, Gorbacz. You made my day. Especially with the swift shift :D.
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Even though the Third Pathfinder Preview concerning Seoni doesn’t come out until next week, I’ve decided to start the complaining now.
First, the artwork. Even though I haven’t seen it yet, I am very disappointed with this unseen artwork. It fails to meet my unrealistic expectations of being hyper-photorealistic, yet still in the style of classic masters.
Secondly, let’s discuss Seoni’s Fortitude saving throw. Even though I don’t know what the number is, I’m going to assume it’s very low for a 14th level character, if not negative. This leaves her completely vulnerable to poison, say from the bite of a garden snake, or disease, say from stepping on a rusty rake. This is obviously a significant fault with the sorcerer class as whole, as a sorcerer should have no weaknesses, and be able to do everything perfectly with no help from the rest of the adventuring party.
I’m sure I’ll think of other imaginary complaints before the preview comes out. Please add your
** spoiler omitted **
How can you complain about me? :)
How can you complain about me? :)
Low fort save translates into low endurance.
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Low fort save translates into low endurance.
How can you complain about me? :)
Trust me I have enough endurance in me to keep going, besides when all is reveled not only it will show that I have the fortitude and also power to twart and destroy any foe.
In the end I can still use my spells, do you still need my services?
Well we have been told that there is a gay iconic *ducks*Seoni, Seoni, Seoni. It's like they've shoved Ezren into a closet or something.
LOL...ok, now that was funny. :)
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Well we have been told that there is a gay iconic *ducks*Seoni, Seoni, Seoni. It's like they've shoved Ezren into a closet or something.
Wait - there are gay iconic Ducks? I didn't think Ducks had a write up in the Monster Manual. Now they are part of the core races? And they have multiple iconic examples? Did I miss a meeting?
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Wait - there are gay iconic Ducks? I didn't think Ducks had a write up in the Monster Manual. Now they are part of the core races? And they have multiple iconic examples? Did I miss a meeting?Well we have been told that there is a gay iconic *ducks*Seoni, Seoni, Seoni. It's like they've shoved Ezren into a closet or something.
I think you're confusing Golarion with Glorantha...
I think I will complain about the art, though. Not because it's bad, but because it's the same art we've had for two years now. I'd have liked Paizo to have commissioned new art of the iconics for their appearance in the mega-awesome launch title of the PFRPG. Recycling artwork is for 4.0...
Low fort save translates into low endurance.
How can you complain about me? :)Trust me I have enough endurance in me to keep going, besides when all is reveled not only it will show that I have the fortitude and also power to twart and destroy any foe.
In the end I can still use my spells, do you still need my services?
I'd reply to this, but I can't figure out whether you reacted to the innuendo. Frankly, it would be deeply disturbing if you did.
Wow, I was thinking that no one was gonna touch that set up! Thanks MM!
I did a dozen posts before:
It's his own fault for not coming out of that closet. This is the Age of Lost Omens, not the Age of Darkness, for Elysium's sake!
But apparently I was way too subtle again.
You guys suck! ;-P
Wait - there are gay iconic Ducks?
All I know is that ducks are anathema to Malkavian ninjas.
