Hello! Looking at witch archetypes for a future campaign as a player. Haven't played a witch before, so I didn't want to play an archetype that changes the class too much from vanilla.
Wyrmwitch: Archives of Nethys
Recently came across the wyrmwitch archetype, and it seems like a fun flavor change from the core class without too much change. The little bit of reading I've done on various forums indicates much from the Legacy of Dragons book is notoriously difficult to interpret. My questions has to do with learning spells from the treasure hoard.
From text: "Also, a witch can add a spell to his hoard from a wizard’s spellbook, if the spellbook is kept in the hoard and the spell is on the witch’s class spell list. The wyrmwitch must sleep on the spellbook in his hoard for a number of days equal to the spell’s level, after which he must succeed at a Spellcraft check (DC = 15 + spell level) to learn the spell. No matter the result, the spell is erased from the spellbook."
Question: Does this mean that a wyrmwitch can only learn one spell at a time from a spellbook, or more than one be at a time?
Neither option sound perfect to me.
To compare, one spell level per day could be the worse rate of spell learning present in 1E, and would become worthless mid-to-late campaign (i.e., five 6th level spells taking a month). But in the opposite respect, many spells at a time seems like WAY too much (i.e., five 9th level spells takes nine days).
So by the first method, nine 1st level spells takes nine days while nine 9th level spells takes nine days. Seems like a crazy difference, neither which is good. Useless vs. broken.
Any help interpreting/understanding would be greatly appreciated!
There is no limited on spells learned via absorption mentioned, so there is none.
Remember that you need to get your hands on a book containing these spells, first - that's the main limiting factor. The process removes the spells from the book, so you can't even loan someone's.
Also, the Blood Transcription spell exists, and is free for Witches (because there is no cost for copying spells for a Witch), and unless your GM is a jerk, it works for Wyrm Witch, too. That spell covers Wizards you killed, and thus the Wyrm Witch ability is only useful for randomly found (or bought) spellbooks.
Needing to carry your hoard with you, lest you have to make a concentration check for each spell you cast, seems rather annoying to me (though I suppose diamond dust/gems can be used).
The required value of the hoard is a laughably small amount. You can simply use platinum coins, that's 10 coins (weighting 0.2 lbs) per level.
All good points. In the end, this archetypes seems too vaguely written –considering that the RAW wording of the class leaves it open to allow TWO PATRONS to the witch (though my logic would assert that this couldn't be the case).
Also, the Blood Transcription spell exists, and is free for Witches (because there is no cost for copying spells for a Witch)....
I've always been a fan of Blood Transcription, but my GM is a stickler for spells with alignment –ruling 2-3 intentional castings of an [evil] spell will change a PC's alignment. I personally think it lame that the spell is considered evil, you're not drinking a live person's blood. If anything, the evil act is the killing of the person before the spell is even cast. Evil seems circumstantial for this spell, personally. In any case, my GM pretty much bans this spell due to a long list of reasonable points.
The process removes the spells from the book, so you can't even loan someone's....
Back to the Wyrmwitch, that's a good point about the spells being removed from the spellbook. Makes me lean toward the opinions stated above considering the length of time required to absorb spells.
Nevertheless, I would suggest that a tweak to the rules might make things a bit more interesting. Perhaps the Spellcraft DC could increase incrementally as more spells are absorbed in a single day? Some nuance might be needed, however, because losing spells upon absorption could be unnecessarily punitive –like one attempt per day for a spell; or all the checks are lumped into one and the DC is adjusted based on the number of spells. The latter could help higher level sessions from devolving every time the party rests into one player rolling checks with the GM for 15 minutes, while the rest of the players wait until they're done. I personally find one pivotal check more engaging that several for party involvement.
In the end, this archetypes seems too vaguely written
It's from the same book as the a Fighter archetype that says it replaces the bonus feats at 3rd and 5th level (yes, you read that right). No content editing whatsoever was done on that book.
I've always been a fan of Blood Transcription, but my GM is a stickler for spells with alignment –ruling 2-3 intentional castings of an [evil] spell will change a PC's alignment.
*pukes*
Is being evil problematic? I mean, if my GM would insist on some stupid bull s~@% that makes no sense and utterly violates what the CRB says, I would just write evil on my character sheet after the Xth casting, and continue to play my character as before.
I still don't see finding spells with a large number of useful spells on your list happening often enough tom warrent changing the rules. ~79% of Witch spells may be on the Wizard spell list, but only ~48% of all Wizard spells are on the Witch list. And quite frankly, most spells suck, or are only good for NPCs.
Remember, the archetype is a downgrade, so it's not like you're getting the ability for free. The patrons are all pretty bad, granting zero top-tier-spells (like Color Spray, Invisibility, or Haste), you lose the normal bonuses granted by a Familiar (Alertness and either a feat-equivalent, e.g. +4 Init, or the ability to take Improved Familiar). What you gain is the Bonded Object ability (one free spontaneous cast spell per day), and this spellbook-absorption-thing. Your 'spellbook' can't be killed, but it can be stolen.
Wyrm Witch also doesn't stack with Ashiftah or Scarred Witch Doctor (although it does stack with Invoker).