Runelord catch-up

[Fletch]

I've been away from Pathfinder for a while, probably having dipped out somewhere around Giantslayer (to the point where I get kind of confused about the two simultaneous Cheliax rebellion APs).

But now that I'm Path-curious again, I've noticed a lot of storylines have happened that are now part of an evolving timeline for the setting, and the part that I feel like I most missed out on was all the Runelords.

Feel free to use spoiler blocks, but could somebody catch me up on how, when and where the Rune Lords were encountered?

Spoiler:

Obviously I know of Karzoug, and maybe one of them was encountered in a novel or PFS adventure arc? Did all the rest appear in Return of the Runelords?

[Phntm888]

Karzoug:

Karzoug did his thing in Rise of the Runelords, tried to come back, and was defeated by the Heroes of Sandpoint.

Krune:

Krune appears in the PFS scenario "The Waking Rune", where he gets defeated by a group of Pathfinders to prevent him from coming back.

All of the others are encountered in the Return of the Runelords AP, which was the second to last AP and wrapped up the Runelords series (Rise, Shattered Star, Return). Return served as a direct sequel to Rise and Shattered Star, and also serves to show how the other Varisia-set APs affected Varisia (Second Darkness, Crimson Throne, etc).

The fates of each:

Zutha:

Technically not encountered in Return of the Runelords. Rather, the PCs get a piece of his phylactery (which is a book in 3 parts), and then go to a small island off the coast of Xin's island to perform a ritual that causes the piece of Zutha's spirit in that part of the phylactery to manifest. The PCs then have to defeat the piece of Zutha's spirit. If they do, then Zutha cannot ever come back to life.

Xanderghul:

Widely viewed as the most disappointing of the Runelord encounters in the AP. The actual Xanderghul gets killed by Alaznist before the AP even starts after she figures out a way to use the Scepter of Ages to break into the sanctum he used to survive Earthfall (his "wake me up after 100 years" timer broke, so he didn't wake up until she attacked him).

Fortunately, Xanderghul (secretly being the Peackock Spirit), had a contingency in case of his death. Every time someone visited the Temple of the Peacock Spirit, a small piece of their soul was taken and stored. Upon Xanderghul's death, these pieces coalesced into a shadowy version of Xanderghul. However, he's trapped within the lowest level of the dungeons beneath the Temple, and doesn't have his full power (level 17 wizard instead of level 20 Wizard Mythic Archmage 10). There is a ritual that his followers can do to restore him to his true form and full power, but until they do that, he's stuck. The PCs find the Temple, attack it, and defeat shadow Xanderghul.

Belimarius:

This is the one Runelord encounter that is most left up to the PCs. Canonically, Belimarius lives, and again rules the Thassilonian province of Edasseril from Xin-Edasseril (which was formerly Crystilan, having been trapped outside of time by a trick from Karzoug on Belimarius). When the PCs encounter her, they can actually negotiate with and cut a deal with her, or they can actually fight her if they so choose. Belimarius is not a "fight to the death" type of person, however, and does surrender when she gets to a certain amount of HP left.

Alaznist:

Alaznist is the big bad of the Return of the Runelords AP. She eventually wakes up from her Runewell (ala Karzoug), but later, since she doesn't have the lens to focus the wrath in creatures' souls like Karzoug does for greed. Once she awakens, she finds that Karzoug and Krune are dead, and it appears that none of the other Runelords are active (see Sorshen, below, however). Alaznist decides to go destroy Xanderghul, since she fears him the most, and she does so after getting the Scepter of Ages (which Xanderghul had been trying to find).

Then Alaznist goes and uses the Scepter of Ages to meddle with time to grant herself a ton of power and set herself up as the ruler of Thassilon (Varisia) in modern times. The effects of this meddling has to be undone by the PCs by journeying to the dimension of time. After they undo all of Alaznist's meddling, they get trapped in the upper level of Hollow Mountain, where they have to find Alaznist's Runewell, enter it, and then defeat her, because due to the PCs messing with time to undo her changes, and Alanist's meddling with time, neither the PCs nor Alaznist can exist in the same timeline anymore.

Sorshen:

Sorshen has either the most interesting or the most disappointing bit, depending on your opinion. Unlike the other Runelords, Sorshen didn't spend the 10,000 years hibernating in her Runewell - she spent it aware of the world outside. Over that time period, she began to realize that being cruel, capricious, and evil wasn't very satisfying. Thassilon was no more, and she still wanted to rule, but maybe she didn't need to be so bad. She then watched as new heroes rose up in current times, and then saw them defeate Karzoug and Krune, who had been two of the most powerful wizards of her time. She realized that trying to recreate what was once Thassilon would probably just result in her death.

Sorshen also discovers Nocticula, queen of succubi, and her path to ascend to godhood and become the Redeemer Queen, a CN goddess of redemption, outcasts, and artists (who does not allow CE worshippers in PF2). She decides that if Nocticula can rise above her demonic origins, then she can rise above her evil. She ends up becoming a quasi-ally of the PCs in Return. She's the one who gives them the ritual to destroy Zutha, she tells them about Xanderghul and his contingency (although she doesn't know where the Temple is), and she's the one who warns them of Alaznist's plans.

At the end of the AP, she has created the nation of New Thassilon out of Xin-Shalast, the Kodar Mountains, and Edasseril, a place for outcasts and artists to call home. She is now CN, and she has become a universalist wizard to try and better model Xin's virtues of rule.

[Fletch]

Thanks, Phntm.

Spoiler:

The Pathfinder Wiki was worded in a way that I thought they were referring to Runelords being defeated in other media, glad to see the remaining six are all at least encountered in this 'Return.'

I was curious if they'd be able to scale all the remaining Runelords to be a good series of foes over however many levels, but some of the summaries you give show that they were at different stages of fullness of power.

It really is kind of jarring that Varisia, once defined by being a frontier land built over the ruins of a forgotten empire, is now just that empire again.

[Gorbacz]

Varisia is fine, it's just that the admittedly least, erm, tourist-friendly part of it became a separate nation.

[Deadmanwalking]

Fletch wrote:

It really is kind of jarring that Varisia, once defined by being a frontier land built over the ruins of a forgotten empire, is now just that empire again.

It's not really. New Thassilon only takes up around 1/3 of Varisia, and basically the part with the fewest people anyway.

Spoiler:

Also, Sorshen's part of it is not really an empire, she's currently taking a very hands off approach to her foreign policy and trying to make her new kingdom super nice to live in.

Belimarius's part is, admittedly, more traditionally an empire, right down to being expansionist, but its expansionist tendencies are aimed north at the Land of the Linnorm Kings rather than south.

So Magnimar, Riddleport, Korvosa, and Kaer Maga are still very much their own places, as are at least most of the Shoanti lands and so on. This is very intentional on Sorshen's part, and Belimarius has her own island saved and frozen in time from ancient Thassilon and just unfrozen...and she really doesn't want to annoy Sorshen who could casually crush her like a bug.

[zimmerwald1915]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

New Thassilon only takes up around 1/3 of Varisia, and basically the part with the fewest people anyway.

New Eurythnia:

New Eurythnia is, for the most part, all but impossible for people to live in. It's anchored on the west and east by Brinewall and Xin-Shalast respectively, and between these two towns (Xin-Shalast is a 1E Large City today, but is so depopulated that it only has about 4% of the people it could support) only the Nolands and the rest of the Steam River flood plain can actually support agriculture. The remaining land consists of some of the most rugged, inhospitable, and unproductive mountainous waste on the planet.

New Edasseril:

Speaking of unproductive wastes, Belimarius's conquests so far consist of some rocks in the Steaming Sea and the Mierani Forest, all of which are plagued by guerrillas. She failed utterly at conquering Southmoor. New Edasseril's expansionism is more theoretical than real.

[Deadmanwalking]

New Eurythnia:

All true, and why nobody else wanted it, but that's what ridiculous epic magic is for, IMO. It's a small nation thus far and Sorshen's magic alone gives them a huge advantage in providing for current citizens, and who knows what her long term plans are, though I'd assume enough agriculture to survive and then becoming a center for learning, magic, and art to be her main agenda at the moment in terms of infrastructure/products.

New Edasseril:

Well, yes. But she's working on it and thus a potential threat, which is where I was going with that.

[zimmerwald1915]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

New Eurythnia:

Well, she does have Runeforge, anyway.

[Vorsk, Follower or Erastil]

Zutha does actually make an appearance in the book Lord of Runes by Dave Gross, and that is actually cannon as taking place before Return of the Runelords.

[Deadmanwalking]

Vorsk, Follower or Erastil wrote:

Zutha does actually make an appearance in the book Lord of Runes by Dave Gross, and that is actually cannon as taking place before Return of the Runelords.

Yep.

Spoiler:

As I understand it, thatt's how his Phylactery gets split, allowing the Return of the Runelords PCs to finish him off.

[James Jacobs]

Correct regarding Zutha. More runelord catch-up notes in the spoiler...

Spoiler:

When we were deciding how to have the seven runelords get their screentime and either be defeated or slain or whatever, part of that was deciding what product line got to take them on. After Karzoug was established and defeated in the Adventure Path, Krune ended up being Org Play's runelord to showcase, while Zutha became the novel line's runelord to feature. Having Alaznist be the final runelord at the end of the trilogy was my plan from the start, since she's at the top tier of what a 20th level non-mythic party can really take on.

I wanted at least one runelord to survive this all, and that meant that runelord needed to be someone who saw the big picture and realized that the old ways were the wrong ways and that they needed to change. I chose Sorshen for that role because she's my favorite, and also because she's way too powerful for a non-mythic party to face. By setting her up as a non-enemy and potential ally in Return of the Runelords, she no longer sits in a "FIGHT RUNELORD" category and we don't have to nerf her or do a mythic adventure path to justify her in a combat against the PCs.

I didn't want more than one runelord to atone and become non-evil though, becasue that story is diluted quickly if they do. So that meant Xanderghul got the nerf. Having Alaznist step in to kill him and force his soul and body into a half-power shell (which still makes him a tough foe, just not the TOUGHEST foe) not only served the story needs to get him into a league where he could be faced by non-mythic PCs, it set up Alaznist as the most powerful villain runelord and thus a satisfying foe to finally defeat at the end of the runelord trilogy. Furthermore, the story beat of a runelord of pride being so humiliated and humbled by his own character flaws (had he not been so proud he would have made different choices and would have likely survived it all with ease) is compelling, classic storytelling.

Although Krune and Zutha had both been defeated in previous storylines (the Org Play season for Krune and the Dave Gross novel for Zutha) I still wanted them to have roles in Return of the Runelords, even if they were more akin to cameos. Stopping a cult from resurrecting Krune and finally destroying Zutha's phylactery were my decisions there... and in Zutha's case, the destruction of a lich's phylactery is the obvious and classic finale to the kill the lich plot anyway, so that felt very elegant. AND It let me get those two encounters in before Xanderghul's.

That left Belimarius. I didn't want to canonically kill off all the runelords, since I wanted to set up the civil war we see today in New Thassilon. I also wanted a runelord who was evil to stick around. Belimarius, being the 2nd least powerful Runelord, made a perfect choice for this role and her power level made her a perfect choice for the penultimate adventure. And also, the fact that the runelord of envy survives the whole 1st edition cycle only to shift from 2nd least powerful active runelord to LEAST powerful active runelord fit her sin of envy and storyline too perfectly.

With New Thassilon, we kept one of Golarion's most well-known villians and groups active in 2nd edition, but changed in a way to keep them, hopefully, fresh. I have several ideas for where the next chapter of runelord/Thassilon stories go, but it'll be a while before we get there. For now, they're in the background while we focus on other parts of the setting. And keep in mind that New Thassilon didn't just take over part of Varisia; it also took over part of the Linnorm Kingdoms, Irrisen, and the Mammoth Lords... but mostly parts of those four lands that are classically uninhabitable or dangerous. New Thassilon, as far as nations go, may well have the SMALLEST citizen population of all nations in the Inner Sea region, but it's got its MOST powerful ruler with Sorshen at the helm of the eastern side of it.

AKA: Varisia is pretty much fine and in better shape safety-wise in 2nd edition than it ever was in 1st edition.

[zimmerwald1915]

James Jacobs wrote:

Correct regarding Zutha. More runelord catch-up notes in the spoiler...

** spoiler omitted **...

Eh, how many people a country has doesn't actually matter in this setting.

[James Jacobs]

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Correct regarding Zutha. More runelord catch-up notes in the spoiler...

** spoiler omitted **...

Eh, how many people a country has doesn't actually matter in this setting.

Not really the point of my post, but I'm glad you got something out of it.

[Fletch]

I'm guilty of buying more than a couple Adventure Paths just for reading, so I'll likely get some of the 'Return' books at some point. So I guess my question about the Runelords appearing in other media is...

Spoiler:

It sounds like the novel could be ignored if desired and just have the PCs quest for Zuthra's phylactery be the first attempt to defeat an ancient lich. Like, if the players never read the book, would they feel like they'd missed out on part of Zuthra's story if the DM just said "he's a lich, here's some clues to finding his phylactery"?

Oh, and...

Spoiler:

Looking at the level requirements for the Krune adventures in Pathfinder Society, could those be run as a sort of sidequest during 'Return'? Ultimately, it sounds like the set-up allows for the PCs to encounter (and defeat those needing defeating) the six remaining Runelords.

I didn't intend to get into the weeds of the actual AP here in the setting forums, but I'm curious.

[Deadmanwalking]

Spoiler:

In terms of Zutha, yeah you're fine skipping the book. In terms of Krune, there are issues, because stopping a cult from resurrecting him is the lowest level part of Return of the Runelords, and would be hard to remove, and for that to work he needs to be dead, so having him show up later would be problematic.

[CorvusMask]

I mean you could have cult successfully resurrect him and have him show up in final dungeon :p

[Deadmanwalking]

CorvusMask wrote:

I mean you could have cult successfully resurrect him and have him show up in final dungeon :p

Yes, but having the PCs auto-fail doesn't strike me as very fun.

[CorvusMask]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

CorvusMask wrote:

I mean you could have cult successfully resurrect him and have him show up in final dungeon :p

Yes, but having the PCs auto-fail doesn't strike me as very fun.

They could fail just normally though!

Seriously though, lot of adventures are based on premise of "You can't stop phase 1 of the plan, just the final phase!" so its not like it would be too big deal. Plus it could be rewritten so that cultist have already done it before PCs got involved and instead as result things happen differently for different reasons.

[James Jacobs]

CorvusMask wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

CorvusMask wrote:

I mean you could have cult successfully resurrect him and have him show up in final dungeon :p

Yes, but having the PCs auto-fail doesn't strike me as very fun.

They could fail just normally though!

Seriously though, lot of adventures are based on premise of "You can't stop phase 1 of the plan, just the final phase!" so its not like it would be too big deal. Plus it could be rewritten so that cultist have already done it before PCs got involved and instead as result things happen differently for different reasons.

If your PCs manage to stop a master plan before the final phase, that's great! You'll just ned to have other adventure paths on hand if they wanna keep playing their characters is all.