Hi folks, bestiary/creature question here.
Both the Shadow and the Greater Shadow have an ability called Shadow Spawn. It reads as follows:
Shadow:
When a creature’s shadow is pulled free by Steal Shadow, it becomes a shadow spawn under the command of the shadow that created it. This shadow spawn doesn’t have Steal Shadow and is perpetually and incurably clumsy 2. If the creature the shadow spawn was pulled from dies, the shadow spawn becomes a full-fledged, autonomous shadow. If the creature recovers from its Enfeeblement, its shadow returns to it and the shadow spawn is extinguished.
Seems pretty clear to me that you just replicate a shadow sheet, add Clumsy 2 and remove the ability to generate more. Now for the Greater Shadow version:
When a creature’s shadow is pulled free by Steal Shadow, it becomes a shadow spawn under the command of the greater shadow that created it. This shadow spawn doesn’t have Steal Shadow. If the creature the shadow spawn was pulled from dies, the shadow spawn becomes a full-fledged, autonomous shadow. If the creature recovers from its Enfeeblement, its shadow returns to it and the shadow spawn is extinguished.
Now here's the issue: apart from no longer being Clumsy 2, what is the difference between this "Shadow Spawn" and the one generated by the regular shadows?
My question, in TL;DR form is as follows:
When a Greater Shadow spawns a new shadow:
A)It uses the stats for a regular level 4 shadow minus the ability to generate a new one.
B)It uses the stats for a greater shadow (level 7) minus the ability to generate a new one.
Which one is it? And is there official confirmation?
I'm guessing you're getting the text from Archives of Nethys or something? Because in the Bestiary under greater shadow this is the relevant text:
Shadow Spawn As shadow, but the spawn isn’t clumsy.
This tells me a greater shadow's spawn is the same as a shadow's spawn, minus the clumsy condition.
Sorry for necro-ing this old thread, but my question is also related to the shadow spawn ability, and why start multiple treads:
Do you treat the shadow spawn (which the text says is "under the command of the shadow") as a minion for that shadow (i.e. requiring the shadow to spend an action to Command the spawn to give it two actions) and only after the death of the origin-creature does it stop being a minion and becomes a fully independent ("full-fledged, autonomous") creature?
Or do you use the (much more powerful) interpretation that the spawn starts out being able to act fully independently and is only "under the command" of the shadow rp-wise, similar to how a soldier would be under the command of their superior officer?
Unfortunately, the text doesn't give any clear rules on how to handle this "spawn", but for the latter interpretation, the difference between it being a shadow spawn under the command of the shadow and then later becoming a "full-fledged, autonomous shadow" seems rather minimal, especially for those spawned by a greater shadows.
Minion is an important game term that would need to be included in order to be implemented. The rules are clear IMO, and includes everything necessary to run the spawn. Adding words due to overthinking the ramifications is what's muddying the issue.
And yes, it's a strong ability, a creature-defining ability, and one must be wise in placing Shadows into appropriate encounters. Of course there are many monsters requiring wise placement...
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Other commenters and I were joking once about how an NPC undead who had created lots of spawn might want to bargain with the PCs for protection so a more evil villain doesn't kill it. And the heroes wouldn't want the undead killed since it'd strengthen all those spawn.
Wights fit into a similar category there.
There's at least one AP that features two shadows abandoning their parent greater shadow to escape, so they clearly have a degree of free will. It is definitely closer to being under the command of a military officer than being a minion.