Shenmen is the spider city. The name might be similar I'm writing from my bad memory.
There's also an oni empire...
I also like this idea because I feel like I can revive my mongol campaign concept through it -- one branch of the campaign can be the Kaoling hobgoblins angling to conquer one of the Kelleshite domains which is similar to ancient Persia.
I guess that would have some difficulties.
The Kelleshite domains are pretty far from there.
Even going through the underground would be difficult, there's a chapter on that in the Dragon Empires book.
For that mongol feeling another Tian Xia Empire would be more suited, since there's one pretty similar which is also close to Casmaron somehow.
Shenmen is an eerie province cloaked in constant fog where spider women rule, one empress above all, in an underground palace.
That's a pretty cool background for adventures as well.
You have to stay on top to stay in favor^^
Or the Oni empire of Chu Ye, that one provides a lot of opportunity as well.
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Just to toss you an idea... the city of Dis, on the second layer of Hell.
Being ruled by the archdevil Dispater himself, the place certainly has a lot of epic potential. It also is connected to an infinite amount of material worlds, thus you can have many different PCs and being a city, there would be ample amounts of intrigue.
One PC could try get influence to create a multiplane spice empire, while the other could be trying to free a wizard who have traded his soul from one of the prisons, while a third one could simply be a seasoned gladiator!
A good Golarion world map would strongly suggest that the Mongol hobgoblin hordes of Kaoling are rather boxed-in, far from the Empire of Kelesh and the Pit of Gormuz and even farther from Kellid lands (the Worldwound, Numeria, the River Kingdoms, etc.). Taking over / re-establishing the Empire of Lung Wa and then haring off to an entirely different continent to fight giant monsters seems silly to me when we have our own giant monsters to our south.
Instead of rampaging across the land, and considering the original idea was for everyone to be members of thieves' guilds / secret societies (at least one of the tri/quad-stalt needing to be a class that gave 6 or 8 skill points per level), and considering there definitely seems to be a sense of 'let's hunt big things', allow me to reiterate my previous suggestion -- with modifications.
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The characters are part of a truly secret society, established and directed by one of the major magical elements in the south of the Tian Xian continent -- Xa Hoi (akin to RL Thailand, ruled by the Dragon King Pham Duc Quan, an imperial dragon in human guize) and Dtang Ma (akin to RL Vietnam, ruled by five sorcerers) would appear to be the best bets, the former because hey, dragon, and the latter because hey, powerful sorcerers; even better, perhaps the Dragon King and the over-sorcerer run this secret society together. Their membership infiltrates other such societies across the continent, becoming moles within other nations' secret police and the like, helping them to spy upon the other nations and governments, give them early warning if something is going on, that sort of thing. You know, secret super-spy stuff.
Now, Minata (akin to RL Indonesia / Philippines) can barely be called a country, and might best be described as a loose confederation of little isolated island 'kingdoms'; demon-worshippers, monsters, vile sorcerers, and profane priests live scattered across the southern islands. What if one (or a cabal) not only learns to generate and control kaiju, Brobdignagian or not, but (a la Dragonlance) can convert their proto-offspring into fierce monster/near-humanoid soldiers by the hundreds or thousands? They roll over Nagajor, and threaten Po Li, Quain, Dtang Ma, and Xa Hoi.
Now the Dragon King and the Five Sorcerers are needing to put their most elite agents (the PCs) on the job. On the one hand, we would have to help Po Li and Quain defend themselves (because, with the plains, they're more readily vulnerable than Dtang Ma and Xa Hoi); on the other hand, we'd be involved in working sub-rosa in the other realms, trying to bring them together to face this Omega-level threat.
Hell, we might fight in Quain and lose, because a handful of people can do only so much -- beat off one of the fourteen in-game kaiju, but the army loses the battle because outnumbered 3:1 or more -- but that just ups the ante, and then we're in a fighting retreat, trying to preserve as much of Quain's armies and supplies as we can before we're engaged (and lose again!) in Lingshen. At that point the pressure really mounts, because of course we'll have 'lost' twice, and of course everyone else wants to be in charge, and ...
... and it's a campaign!! ;)
Because it's a secret society infiltrating other secretive guilds and the like, our characters could be anyone from Tian Xia, socially or racially -- elves, hobgoblins, whatever. And while our alignments might vary a lot, we still should be loyal to whichever overlord(s) we've sworn our oath to; it's just that our methods might be wildly different. (And have that 'you did wrong, feel my displeasure' element in there, losing levels or tiers for a time.)
I like some of those ideas a lot -- if we were going to do that, I'd require that everyone actually make a PC that felt like they were inspired by something in the Thai or Vietnamese lengendarium -- not just allow random anything that conformed to the build rules.
For instance, a half-ogre or ogre of some sort could be similar to the depiction of yaks in the Ramakian. There are lots of other such possibilities.
I wouldn't just allow a Japanese-like samurai or a random character from somewhere else. You'd all have to actually commit to playing characters inspired by Thai and or Vietnamese concepts like a Buddhist, Animist, or Caodai Priest, and confining yourselves to races like varanas that make sense in that context.
I'm on board except with the idea of the recruiting pool -- why would they be random characters from all over Tian Xia if they work for a specific monarch from a specific place? I'd think they'd mainly come from the given kingdom under consideration -- the fantasy Thailand or Vietnam.
While that does sound super badass and a ton of awesome fun Wyrm,
I kinda really wanna play an evil conquering baddie or evil overlord or otherwise evil leader using Seb's rules.
Also, Sir Longears idea, of setting the game in Dis, was also really freakin awesome!
I think that if you're looking at a "nations at war, which is interrupted by giant monsters" approach, the area around the Pit of Gormuz is a winner. There are three powerful nations near it: Vudra, the Kelishite empire, and Quadira; two of those nations reallllllllyyyyy don't like each other.
The 'recruiting pool' (as you're calling it) is because the continent of Tian Xia is incredibly cosmopolitan, specifically because almost all of its countries are only a decade or two out of being a unified country, with officials, soldiers, and their families having been sent where-ever they were assigned -- or, in the case of the two mentioned potential southern nations, possibly having been refugees from conquest, refusing to bow down to the Imperial Overlord. The PCs are potentially second-generation individuals, who first learned the culture of (for example) Minkai from their parents and grandparents while living in another country, one to which they are loyal -- or were recruited into the organization in their home countries because they hated their Lung Wa overlords.
It's the same sorts of reasons for spies and agents today.
In any case. Any of them could be interesting, though I think the Dis game would have to be really particular, because ten characters with ten different reasons to be there are usually going to ignore each other and go their ten different ways.
I'm interested in a set up where there's a strong commonality among the characters. I'm not interested in a set up like a kitsune from Minkai, an orc from Belkzen, a Chelaxian summoner, and a Nidalese inquisitor. I want all the characters, or virtually all, to be from the same kingdom, race, social unit, etc.
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If going for the original idea, I'd probably need some help with the lore, since I'm not really knowledgeable of Vietnamese and Thai myths and culture.
In any case. Any of them could be interesting, though I think the Dis game would have to be really particular, because ten characters with ten different reasons to be there are usually going to ignore each other and go their ten different ways.
How about overthrowing Dispater? Even if the PCs have different reasons to want something, if they are trying something really big and dangerous, they would certainly need to back each other.
We don't need to do that one, but I'm not interested in a bunch of random characters. I'm interested in something like everyone is a hobgoblin kaoling warlord (mongol) -- what I don't want is to have a set up like that, and then everyone immediately asks me if they can play something else.
For the Xa Hoi set up, I'd want everyone to be a Tian-Dans, nagaji, Tian-Dtangs, Tian-Hwans, or wayangs.
If we're doing Dtang Ma, I'd want everyone to be Tian-Dtangs with bloodlines related to one of the rulers (storms, fey, music, stars).
We don't need to do that one, but I'm not interested in a bunch of random characters. I'm interested in something like everyone is a hobgoblin kaoling warlord (mongol) -- what I don't want is to have a set up like that, and then everyone immediately asks me if they can play something else.
I'm of two minds regarding this:
On the one hand, having everybody be hobgoblins or Tian-Dtangs with specific bloodlines makes for a very united party, and really emphasizes that particular aspect of the game/setting.
However, being able to play a more or less anything you want is one of the biggest hallmarks of the D&D system, and is a main attraction for people.
You mentioned above not wanting 'kitsune from Minkai, an orc from Belkzen, a Chelaxian summoner, and a Nidalese inquisitor.' Which is fair. Especially if the game is set in Tian Xia.
But, being able to explore the other cultures and races of that continent, getting to put together a concept that is distinctly Tian-Xia, but isn't as restricted as you're asking for, is one of the main reasons I like the game being set there. Because there's very few games that take place in the Dragon Empires.
I feel like there's enough 'commonality' in any of the proposed games.
That said, I also have zero problem playing a hobgoblin warlord. I was just hoping to possibly play something else. Not sure what, exactly, however, LOL.
I'm actually kind of liking the setting of Xo Hoi and Dtang Ma -- I think both of the capitals would be really interesting settings. One is near an active volcano, and another is a canal city.
I think for Xo Hoi we could also have characters that are half-dragons related to the imperial dragon who rules it, but I don't want to set a game there and immediately have everyone make a character from somewhere else in Tian-Xia.
Since there's going to be so much choice in class, I think it's reasonable to have some other restrictions -- the attraction for me would be that I'm really interested in the religion and architecture of the Khmer Empire, and I could see Ramprassad being an opportunity to really lean into that.
I could add a few more races that I think fit with the milieu -- like varanas and some kind of ogre-kin for Dtang Ma, also some kind of bird people to represent garuda and nirpunka from the Ramakian.
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Well, to be honest, it appears there are just too many ideas and concepts floating around based on conflicting themes. Perhaps if you narrow the scope of what you want to play and define some key elements will help. I'll make a couple questions in order to (hopefully) help with that.
1) Are the PCs really special (since they are quadstalt lvl 16/tristalt lvl 18), or they just a bit above the curve?
-If you think about the regular rules and monsters, a PC with the above rules would be really powerful and special, which could make more sense for the PCs to be from different regions and races. Think about today's geniuses... if they were all from the same country, that could would be in a tremendous advantage against the rest of the world.
-On the other hand, if they are not that powerful and there are many more NPCs with similar power level all around the world, then they PCs are not that 'important' and could be easier to justify all of them being members of the same race and region. If this is the case, perhaps it is not necessary for you to find an ultra special region to place your campaign... elves battling Treerazor or special Chelaxian agents trying to expand their empire to the whole world could work just fine and could perhaps be easier for everyone to make a PC that fits the general idea.
2) What is more important to you, the intrigue aspect or the powerful combatants battling monsters?
-In my opinion, these two ideas are a bit contradictory and linked to the above question. To me, intrigue is necessary and important when you want or need something that you can't easily take and there are dire consequences of simply taking it by force. If the PCs are too powerful, then the necessity of intrigue diminishes unless you have stronger opponents that the PCs can't openly challenge. Intrigue games shine when there are stakes and there are a lot of RPing involved, which doesn't actually need the PCs to be powerful in the sense of blasting planets.
-On the battle monsters side, the monsters are monsters and intrigue is generally not needed. What you generally need is a big gun/spell/sword. In this mode, the PCs could be as powerful as you want and still find many challenges, but once you start fighting Kaiju and other world-threatening monsters, the intricacies of political intrigue appears to be secondary at most.
3) How different you need or want this game to be in terms of the setting? Will the players be able to accurately see their PCs?
-We all like to make something new, but sometimes stuff are too different than we just can't wrap our heads around it. In general, we are pretty familiar with Golarion's "core" portion, and I believe it is easy for us to change a couple things and still see the whole picture. The idea would be to take the "known" and change a couple things.
-On the other hand, you could do the reverse and go for something entirely different at the base, but then keep other things similar to what we already know. The idea would be to take the "unknown" and simplify it. Perhaps the struggle of each player wanting to play "something else" than what is being proposed is simply because they can't really see the big picture because it is simply too outside of their comfort zone.
I think there might also be a mismatch between what I find interesting in some of these proposals, and what others do --
For instance, the thing I find interesting about the fantasy Vietnam/Thailand settings in Tian-Xia would be that it would offer some broad, framework, but also allow for some homebrewing -- like make up my own map and gazette of the capital city, as well as some NPCs and adventures sites and maps.
I'm also interested in the cultural particularity of those locations, like I could see making up a Golarion equivalent of the Caoi Dai movement or the tattoo masters of Thailand.
I'd even be willing to do something lower level in a setting like that which I found particularly intriguing, and focus more on the world building than mechanical angle.
The question is whether anyone is actually interested in that setting enough to do that.
If going for the original idea, I'd probably need some help with the lore, since I'm not really knowledgeable of Vietnamese and Thai myths and culture.
Perhaps the struggle of each player wanting to play "something else" than what is being proposed is simply because they can't really see the big picture because it is simply too outside of their comfort zone.
This is one of my main reasons for not wanting to necessarily play that type of game.
I'm uncomfortable playing a character heavily influenced by a culture I know little about. Even though I could research it, it's not the same. Writers often feel this way when writing characters of different genders/sexual orientations/cultures from themselves.
That said, if the majority wanted to play this game, I could probably play some sort of draconic PC that was more influenced by his draconic heritage than by anything else.
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In my particular case, I find this proposal a lot intimidating. While I'm from Brazil, I feel comfortable in RPing characters with European, Nordic and Native American (south in my case).
Each society have their own etiquete rules and taboos and IMO for an intrigue game, each player needs to be quite familiar to these aspects (society, etiquete, nobility, etc) of the predominant culture of the setting.
Aside from food, I know almost nothing about Vietnam/Thailand or the Mongol Empire. I know a bit more about the Japanese culture. That being said, I'd not feel comfortable at all in an intrigue campaign based on these cultures simply because I'd not know the basics of doing anything... like, can I enter a home uninvited? Are government officials to be utterly respected? How powerful is the nobility, and the merchants?
As a player, while I DO want to know more about different settings, I DO NOT want to second guess every single action I take. Having to ask every time if something is appropriate or logical feels tiring. To make a silly comparison, as a cook I can try some new Vietnamese or Thai flavors and spices in my regular recipes, but would certainly not try to make an authentic feast for a native.
On the other hand, a campaign where it is more of a "point to the monster and go kill it" would be different, since you need to know much less.
My advice would be if you want your game to be more to the side of intrigue, try something we are more familiar with. If powergaming is more important, than do whatever you want, for the fun is only about blasting and killing things anyway... if I'm making an axe wielding warrior, I can make him a human, elf, goblin or tortoiseman coming from Golarion, Venus or Middle Earth.
I feel like some of these proposals are centered around a character concept that people have had in mind, but I'm unfortunately not really that interested in creating a setting and campaign to fit those ideas.
I'm honestly not feeling anything really 'clicking' for me at the moment. I'm interested in the Tian Xia idea, but there seems to be a big mismatch between what I find interesting or compelling about these proposals and what potential players want out of it.
I feel like some of these proposals are centered around a character concept that people have had in mind, but I'm unfortunately not really that interested in creating a setting and campaign to fit those ideas.
I can't speak for anybody else, but I have no character in mind, other than for the Zhent game and Vaults of Orv, both of which have long since been discarded.
I have lots of ideas, possibilities and maybes. Because that's how my mind works. Each time I've read a potential game idea, my brain started coming up with several different concepts that would fit. Of course, knowing me, it's very likely I would toss them all aside for some other character that I hadn't even initially thought of.
As for which game clicks for you, what about Warlords of Kaoling?
Several people said they liked that idea. You seem to like it as well.
What do you want out of it, as our GM?
But what I like about it is if we were going to make a goblinoid party and I could re-use some of my ideas for the Mongol campaign.
It seems to me one of the real misunderstandings is somewhere else.
Right now, i don't really see a campaign, only campaign idea outlines.
More of something resembling a semi sandbox where GM and players react.
Tian Xia is already enriched by real world lore and oriented there. If you want to fill in more of that, might be awesome.
Why don't you as GM go ahead and choose something?
You can then do world building and background.
I think most important though is to come up with a real campaign, not just the campaign outline.
There needs to be an actual story the PCs can actively participate in with a central theme to follow which progresses.
And that central theme is more important than a huge illustrated world.
The world needs to be illustrated where the spotlight goes.
When the world is too huge and contains too much - for the actual adventure unnecessary - information, that can be a burden on the game and players. But also on the GM because too much resources go there instead into the actual game.
Sticking to the for the game and campaign important stuff is also important in my eyes.
Looking at the Dark Sun game, which is awesome overall, there are parts though which are just too crowded and the scale of the lore and information just too much at times. The relevance for what is actually happening or how it relates to the PCs and the game is difficult to see then. Especially when you add or expand it in large junks.
That's undoubtedly great stuff and great world building, but not really necessary for the game and sometimes makes the game stumble i think.
So what i'm trying to say is, do your world building, but maybe keep the scale a bit lower and relate it to the actual game you want to run.
The RPG world is like a theater stage. If that's too large or too detailed and decorated, the actual play becomes unimportant. But since that is where the players join in, their roles suffer as well.
That's my 2 cents coming from the other games.
With that said, i really hope we can have a nice game here.
Tian Xia is one of my favorites after Dark Sun!
With gestalt/tristalt or whatever this can still be a mix of intrigue and monster fighting campaign. We have the versatility there! A mix would probably be most interesting.
That's also a big problem for me -- the only proposal where I have a strong plot idea where I could actually sort of imagine what the campaign would consist of, like I could start writing the first post and imagine adventures, is The Wyrm Ouroboros's Xoi Hai and Dtang Ma ideas. It just don't like the aspect of that proposal where it seems like it's irrelevant if we set it in Goku or Minkai, or anywhere else in Tian Xia.
As for the concept, i don't have a character concept currently, but i have strong tendencies what i like to play overall, because it's my personal play style. That slowly begins to bring forth similar stuff by now, especially in gestalt games i think.
I understand the culture unwellnes, but i don't think it's a big thing.
That would be something which either the GM had to decide beforehand and communicate to the players, or would have to be decided in a group effort.
I don't think that would have to be 100% culturally correct at all.
After all, it's a fantasy game and there is something like ease of play.
@Seb: I'm not sure why you want that race restriction. Every country there has several races and probably all of the Tian Xia races make sense in Tian Xia.
Like even in Kaoling an elven ambassador or a half-elf make a lot of sense.
And for the campaign background Kaoling and the D'tang Ma idea seem quite good. Chu Ye the Oni Empire might be a good catch as well though.
Distant Shores details Dhucharg so that might be a good start to look for ideas.
As for all of us playing hobgoblins(or goblinoids) for that game, I already said I have no problem doing that. I really like that concept a lot, more so than a lot of the others proposed, and it could be neat playing hobgoblin.
That's also a big problem for me -- the only proposal where I have a strong plot idea where I could actually sort of imagine what the campaign would consist of, like I could start writing the first post and imagine adventures, is The Wyrm Ouroboros's Xoi Hai and Dtang Ma ideas. It just don't like the aspect of that proposal where it seems like it's irrelevant if we set it in Goku or Minkai, or anywhere else in Tian Xia.
I'm afraid something like that will always be the case. You can always file of the serial numbers and put things into a different environment, both geographically and cultural.
My suggestion would be, find the story you want to tell, aka the adventure. This can be a module or something. Your Legacy of Fire in Dark Sun idea was something i really, really liked.
Think i told you before, we i once played in a Kingmaker set in an arabian inspired desert setting. Very cool!
Then you file off the serial numbers, aka adapt monsters to the climate, take the culture and terrain specs and make them count somehow.
This can be as little details like why women have to wear a veil, or men a glove on their left hand at all times, and weave that into the game with situations where that really counts somehow.
You need to communicate at least basics of that beforehand though.
Make that the foundation of the game, not something inserted later.
Then you and players can have fun with it during the game, by following, maneuvering around or breaking those things.
Like not wearing a veil, but trying to escape or facing repercussions.
Stuff like that makes for a very fun game in my experience.
That would also adress the unfamiliarity with foreign cultures thing.
You can choose the Thai culture and make some aspects up.
I think your hobgoblin/mongol idea could work well with each of the pcs being a member of the ruling Council of Nine in Kaoling.
There's opportunity for either conflict against a rival nation or conflict between the council members.
I’m watching this thread, but mostly content to get some more detail before I express too much interest. Anything past gestalt tends to be difficult to build well, in my experience. I do thing playing as monsters can help that, as can Mythic. IE, I’d rather play a Paladin/Sorcerer Gold Dragon or a Paladin/Sorcerer Archmage than a Paladin/Sorcerer/Monk. Likewise Tristalt, but tying one third to a concept; the Irrisen idea was a good one. Monkeygod’s Broken Golarion game that incorporated Godbound rules was fun too, and would be a good choice if the game included being a demigod or the scion of a god. At any rate, I might be interested, but in some of Sebecloki’s previous recruitments, I found them to be...daunting, and ended up not submitting.
Okay, I'm still mulling over ideas.
For the Dtang Ma idea, there's a note that alchemists come from all over the world to seek rare poisons in the nearby jungles. That could be a set up for foreigners to come from all over the place and get involved with the intrigues of the ruling sorcerers. I have to agree with some of the comments that this kind of set up doesn't necessarily lend itself to super high power -- I think the mechanical angle would be more using the poison supplement and ultimate intrigue rules. It would be kind of a sandbox where you'd all arrive in the capital and have to get a jungle expedition together, and there would be agents of the different sorcerers trying to get an upper hand, even from the get go. The capital city has an active volcano next to it as well.
Is everyone completely committed to PF1e? Would anyone have any interest in trying a Starfinder gestalt game? I don't think anyone's tried that on the boards yet.
I'm looking at the Dhucharg entry in Distant shores, as well as some of the other cities. I'd still have to come up with a good plot for the hobgoblin generals idea, and I haven't hit upon it yet.
I'm also looking at the city in Vudra that's half ruled by rakshasas -- that looks like a decent set up for an intrigue campaign.
Is everyone completely committed to PF1e? Would anyone have any interest in trying a Starfinder gestalt game? I don't think anyone's tried that on the boards yet.
I'd be interested in trying a Starfinder Gestalt. I would not be interested in PF2e, though.
Is everyone completely committed to PF1e? Would anyone have any interest in trying a Starfinder gestalt game? I don't think anyone's tried that on the boards yet.
Unless I'm missing something, Starfinder and Golarion don't really mix.
If you're considering running a space game, I'm not that interested. I also don't know SF at all, and I'm not currently inclined to learn.
I've never played Starfinder, and not looking to try to build a gestalt+ character in a system I'm not already quite familiar with.
I'm interested in Starfinder as well as PF2!
I enjoy both Starfinder and PF2 as well.
I've never played Starfinder, and not looking to try to build a gestalt+ character in a system I'm not already quite familiar with.
Same goes for PF2.
Is everyone completely committed to PF1e? Would anyone have any interest in trying a Starfinder gestalt game? I don't think anyone's tried that on the boards yet.
Unless I'm missing something, Starfinder and Golarion don't really mix.
If you're considering running a space game, I'm not that interested. I also don't know SF at all, and I'm not currently inclined to learn.
I wasn't suggesting they're the same, and I'm not promising a Golarion game, that's just one of several options on the table.
If this becomes a Starfinder or PF2 game, I'll have to bow out.
However, if you wanted to run a mid to high level gestalt or morestalt Kirthfinder game(10th+) or an Eclipse Codex Persona game with a huge amount of CP, I would be interested in that.
Again, not promising one or the other, or any particular system, or that I'm running this at all.
I'm looking at different options, and I'm not going to commit to any one until I'm ready and have something I can actually imagine developing a campaign around.
If we're going with the Dhucharg hobgoblin warlord idea, I need to hear some prompts about scenarios -- not the whole plot, but what kinds of stuff would happen in this campaign? I'm having a hard time imagining that right now.
What I wrote simply worked with the three things you suggested or implied you were interested in playing with:
a) The Intrigue rules, with all the characters being members of thieves' guilds, secret organizations, or whatnot;
b) The Nation rules, with army battles, fortress- and nation-building, and all that sort of thing; and
c) The Colossi, PCs fighting against massive monsters.
The Xa Hoi / Dtang Ma scenario is one that deals most readily and easily with all three. Really, though, what must be established is what Sir Longears has said: what lies at the core of what you want to run? Re-using the Mongol campaign's themes? If so, then running 'conquer all Casmaron' is what you want, with the PCs coming out of Iobaria or, perhaps, are among the horselords of the Windswept Wastes that surround the Pit of Gormuz. Thing of it is, these guys are horselords -- which means when one of the Spawn of Rovagug emerge, they get the hell out of its way, and wave cheerfully as it wanders into some more civilized and populated area.
In fact, there's an idea right there -- a new Spawn has emerged, and is trundling south. Some bright warlord has the idea to follow in its tracks, raiding and pillaging the wrecked civilizations it plows through. Instead of being those resisting the armies of the colossus, we could be the army of the colossus, riding through Persia and India and laying waste to them, perhaps even infiltrating ahead of the Spawn of Rovagug and assassinating particularly powerful or talented individuals who would be the great spellcasters or those who organize the resistance against the Spawn.
We don't have to be evil ... we just don't have to be good. ;)
If we're going with the Dhucharg hobgoblin warlord idea, I need to hear some prompts about scenarios -- not the whole plot, but what kinds of stuff would happen in this campaign? I'm having a hard time imagining that right now.
Looking over Dhucharg's write up in Distant Shores, both the Mercenary House and Senshi's Arena *could* allow for non hobgoblin PCs.
However, I do understand and appreciate your desire for us to all be goblinoids, so I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. Just pointing out that there's some canonical 'excuses' for us to be non hobs.
As for some scenarios, how about the opening is based on all of us competing in the Arena?
The Council of Nine(the ruling elite of the city) have decided to begin a a series of serious campaigns to invade and take over Jinin, Lingshen and Zi Ha. Which are the 3 nations bordering Kaoling that the hobgoblins hate the most.
Expect, instead of unleashing terrible, massive armies, the Council of Nine is sending a small squad of ultra elite agents to establish a foothold/base, expand power within the borders, assassinate key officials and leaders, and otherwise severely weaken each nation before an eventual conquering invasion.
Not only that, but Shaguang sits on the immediate western border of Kaoling. This massive country is I believe pretty much the Mongol horde.
Perhaps we can also seek to rally those nomads to ally with us, and use their tribes to help us invade other lands??
The Council of Nine decide to host a special tournament to find the 4+ best(however many PCs you want. I would advise an actual cut off this time) combatants to go on these special, covert missions of conquest.
Thus, bringing us back to the arena.
If we're going with the Dhucharg hobgoblin warlord idea, I need to hear some prompts about scenarios -- not the whole plot, but what kinds of stuff would happen in this campaign? I'm having a hard time imagining that right now.Looking over Dhucharg's write up in Distant Shores, both the Mercenary House and Senshi's Arena *could* allow for non hobgoblin PCs.
However, I do understand and appreciate your desire for us to all be goblinoids, so I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. Just pointing out that there's some canonical 'excuses' for us to be non hobs.
As for some scenarios, how about the opening is based on all of us competing in the Arena?
The Council of Nine(the ruling elite of the city) have decided to begin a a series of serious campaigns to invade and take over Jinin, Lingshen and Zi Ha. Which are the 3 nations bordering Kaoling that the hobgoblins hate the most.
Expect, instead of unleashing terrible, massive armies, the Council of Nine is sending a small squad of ultra elite agents to establish a foothold/base, expand power within the borders, assassinate key officials and leaders, and otherwise severely weaken each nation before an eventual conquering invasion.
Not only that, but Shaguang sits on the immediate western border of Kaoling. This massive country is I believe pretty much the Mongol horde.
Perhaps we can also seek to rally those nomads to ally with us, and use their tribes to help us invade other lands??
The Council of Nine decide to host a special tournament to find the 4+ best(however many PCs you want. I would advise an actual cut off this time) combatants to go on these special, covert missions of conquest.
Thus, bringing us back to the arena.
I have some more ideas based on this. What if everyone is responsible for the HOUSEHOLD of one of the nine? In other words, you will make up the ubergestalt lord, but also a cohort that can be non hobgoblin, and lower level. We will do some adventures with these lower level characters, and some with the Nine themselves, or shift back and forth. It will be more like you'll control the whole keep and do something like domain management.
Mh that brings an idea to mind.
How about we use the kingdom building rules from Kingmaker and are sent out to carve a new kingdom out somewhere?
This could literaly be in any country then when we are a tiny invasion force first.
Or in the jungles of Valashmay.
From there it's very easy to implement all sorts of adventures.
You could even use Kingmaker as a blueprint, but add some totally different stuff.
And for the evil part, there's this AP from a 3PP Way of the Wicked. Certainly that is a good blueprint as well and i believe there is also something like kingdom building and armies.
I really like the household idea though. That could be a great synergy.
Mh that brings an idea to mind.
How about we use the kingdom building rules from Kingmaker and are sent out to carve a new kingdom out somewhere?
This could literaly be in any country then when we are a tiny invasion force first.
Or in the jungles of Valashmay.
From there it's very easy to implement all sorts of adventures.
You could even use Kingmaker as a blueprint, but add some totally different stuff.And for the evil part, there's this AP from a 3PP Way of the Wicked. Certainly that is a good blueprint as well and i believe there is also something like kingdom building and armies.
I really like the household idea though. That could be a great synergy.
We could get sent to find out what’s really up with Sarusan and, perhaps, conquer it.
Those are good ideas too -- what would be different about this campaign is that you'd also do stuff like design maps of your keep/royal residence, the principle attendants, etc. There would be campaign events like one of your household priests goes nuts and starts worshipping the old ones. What to do?
For the invasion, we'd have to find vehicle building rules to design flagships and such, and then we'd map the settlements and describe trade envoys.
Looking at Dhucharg--it's actually more like medieval japan as far as I can tell. I'm thinking of a savage naval invasion of Minata (the Philippines), and then onto Sarusan (australia), sort of following a fantasy version of the Imperial Japanese expansion plans. Part of the hobgoblin forces are oni that appear as hobgoblins (these live in one district of the city I just read about in the Pathfinder Companion) -- if we can lift the connection of the oni with the Shadowlands from Rokugan, I could imagine the hobgoblins wrapping minata in a shadowlands veil of oni terror and wreaking havoc on the population.
OK -- I think I have the idea for the first scenario: the Nine are planning a naval conquest of Minata. The PCs start by developing prisoners in Dhucharg that are released by the Nine; their sentences will be commuted if they agree to play a vital but perilous role to help begin the invasion. The Jai Noi (oni in the shape of hobgoblins) among the Nine, or their allies, wish to rip open the portal between the Plane of Shadow/the Shadowlands (I think we'd say that the Rokugan Oni shadowlands are a part of the Plane of Shadow) in Mount Shibotai in Minata, which will involve communications with the mysterious demon the wayangs who live on the caldera believe lives a the bottom of the dormant fire mount. The volcano will also explode. If they make it out alive, and help to successfully kick off the invasion, they'll get their freedom....
Depending on final build rules, I was considering a Kanabo hobgoblin with possible levels in oni-blooded sorcerer.
I feel like that might fit in with what you're proposing nicely Seb.
So we are the prisoners?
I was actually hoping to play a Kitsune, but with a hobgoblin form among others.