
denigreur |
I'm running a Strange Aeons campaign and one of my players brought me a Hex he wants to use.
The Hex in question is Swine :
Benefit(s): The witch can partially transform an enemy into a pig. The effects of the transformation are mostly cosmetic and do not change the creature’s size category or overall shape, but the affected creature takes a –2 penalty on Will saving throws for a number of rounds equal to the witch’s Intelligence modifier (Will negates). At 8th level, the affected creature’s hands (or paws) turn into hooves, preventing it from using claw attacks or taking any action that would require the creature to use its fingers.
My understanding is that it's like the others minor hexes, 30 feet. Where i'm not entirely sure, is that past level 8 (my players are 10th level), the line blurs on what exactly the Hex is doing.
Does it entirely remove attacks or simply give hoof attacks ?
Also, it should bother the target to use weapons, items handling and also use spells with somatic.
Am I reading it correctly ? I'm bringing it forward to see others opinion, couldn't find anything on the board.

Derklord |

You need fingers to wield weapons, use shields (except for bucklers), perform the somatic, material or focus components of spells, or hold/ use held items (e.g. potions or wands).
The hex doesn't give hoof attacks, because it doesn't say so, and not every creature with hooves can attacks with them (cf. the Bison).
As written, the hex has no range, although I agree that it should probably be 30ft, and you as the GM should implement that.

Nyerkh |

Oh, never noticed that one. How very Circe, I like it. Not the clearest language though, indeed.
Hexes tend to be either 30ft range or touch. 30 ft seem reasonable here, if possibly strong.
There's no mention of gaining natural attacks, and not everything with hooves has a "hoof" attack (notably neither pigs nor boars) so no, no natural attack gained.
But no functional hands either so no weapon wielding, which I assume is the point.
I don't think it's supposed to affect somatic component (fingers may not be strictly necessary for those? though I could see some arcane failure % if you want to add something), but it does seem like it'd make handling material components complicated. It definitely screws with alchemists pretty bad.
It also lacks the "once per targer per day" limit most offensive hexes have. I'd add that along with the 30 ft range.
Overall, seems strong against the right opponent, which is not unheard of for hexes.

MrCharisma |

You need fingers to wield weapons, use shields (except for bucklers), perform the somatic, material or focus components of spells, or hold/ use held items (e.g. potions or wands).
The hex doesn't give hoof attacks, because it doesn't say so, and not every creature with hooves can attacks with them (cf. the Bison).
As written, the hex has no range, although I agree that it should probably be 30ft, and you as the GM should implement that.
+1 everything.
Hmmm... I might let them cast spells with somatic components with a failure chance (like 50% or something). Somatic components don't specifically call out fingers that I remember, and if it were just fingers then a Breastplate wouldn't hinder your abilities.

Derklord |

"To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any)." CRB pg. 206
"Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component." CRB pg. 213
The hex turns the hands into hooves, meaning the target doesn't have hands any more. That definitely prevents somatic components, and most material/focus components.
It also lacks the "once per targer per day" limit most offensive hexes have. I'd add that along with the 30 ft range.
I agree on this - even with both these limitations added, it's still one of the strongest hexes in the game.
Somatic components don't specifically call out fingers that I remember, and if it were just fingers then a Breastplate wouldn't hinder your abilities.
Maybe casting a spell looks like Stan talking?

Nyerkh |

Otoh we also have spellcasting monsters that do not have real hands and use other appendices for somatic components. I'll give you that they're usually at least prehensile, but fingers don't seem to be strictly required.
Is fine manipulation the line ? Maybe. But the drawbacks PCs can have that limit that don't affect spellcasting. How relevant is that? Unclear.
Also, divine casters need their hands as well, but their gestures are more simple and streamlined. How do hooves affect them?
(I'll be honest, I'm also defending that position because shutting down weapon users is good enough, killing spellcasting as well just makes this a must-have rather than just a real good option. Losing the ability to cast spells with materials is enough.)
And it is certainly a good hex, great even, but is it ridiculously so ?
Before level 8, the classics are strictly better. Its one positive is that it is not a mental effect.
Then it really takes off, yet depending on what the hoof thing actually does, there still is some serious competition. Slumber for one, in the same line of shutting down people completely.
Not the best example, and it's still a real scary SoS. Just not the only one. Yay ?
I kind of wish we'd have had something that iconic a bit earlier, that would have left us a chance of getting some clarifications. Ah well.